reported Petro cannot find targets in training miz

[twanmal]

During the mission, when it is asked to go as the gunner and activate petrovitch AI, the helicopters first behaves eratic and when it is asked to slow down to 0, the helicopter begins to spin and it never ends.

Here is the track file : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z_qE6ldBQgVW4fRWZaucjoj8rvPZvm44/view?usp=sharing

[randomTOTEN]

The AI isn't perfect, part of learning the Hind is learning how to "fly the AI." Since it appears that all we're doing is giving commands via the Petrovich menu to the native DCS AI pilot engine.

You were never asked to "go as the gunner." Your tutorial broke because something in your controls (or you) switched to the GSh 30-2K auto-canon, which disabled the gunner sight, and broke the training. It was at this point you jumped to the front seat and messed around with the AI commands. You never gave any sort of direction/heading command, which seemed to confuse the AI, eventually resulting in a loss of directional control, and you getting frustrated and ending the training mission.

My suggestion for having a good experience with the training is to do nothing else except what you are told to do. Unless you already know what you're doing.

PS, interesting enough the track does not record the status of the periscope shutters, so your missile attacks were completely blind to me. Otherwise the track worked great.

Edited July 7, 2022 by randomTOTEN

[twanmal]

Thanks for your reply, I will try again with your suggestions

 

[twanmal]

for sure I was asked to go as a gunner because otherwise, I would't have had access to the AI to slow down the speed to 0 in FLT mode as told in the training.

Edited July 12, 2022 by twanmal

[randomTOTEN]

did you fire the missile from the rear seat, using Petrovich?

in your track it shows that failing because the canon was selected. It could be a problem with the track.

[twanmal]

ok for me, petrovich AI should be kept on before the lesson is unpaused. It is not the case if we follow the training : just after the unpause, it is asked to show the AI as a gunner.

What do you think ?

[randomTOTEN]

I've done some more experimenting, and thanks for being patient as I tried to help you.

I think at some point in the development process, the flight model and stability systems of the Hind changed (I'm sure they have). What I think has happened is that the Hind begins the mission being out of trim for straight and level flight. I apologize for suggesting you weren't following the mission correctly, I think that might have been a replay issue (or it might have been an actual user error, you never answered if you fired a missile from the rear seat).

I also asserted that we control a basic AI flight model when we are in the front seat. I don't think that's true anymore. I think the AI is using the same flight model we use in this case.

When the lesson is unpaused, I believe the Hind is badly out of trim. This means that Petrovich does not have enough control authority to properly fly the Hind. Specifically, he seems to be limited in his ability to make control inputs (probably to make his flying smoother).

When the lesson unpauses we are in a climbing left rotation, uncoordinated. When the instructor asks you to hover, Petrovich increases the power for hover flight. Combined with the out-of-trim condition, I think this demands more right anti-torque pedal than Petrovich is desigened to apply, so he looses directional control and we spin to the left.

If, immediately after unpause, I use the Request Control command (default "C") to take the flight controls from Petrovich (I'm flying from the front seat). I use this moment to stabilize the helicopter in forward level flight, and re-trim the controls (cyclic and pedals). I believe this allows Petrovich to have enough authority to properly function. I then give control back to Petrovich ("C") and enable the compass rose HUD. The lesson continues normally and I'm able to complete it.

Here is an example of me also loosing control. Hopefully it doesn't show the weapon mode problems you had in your first post.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13AYesiD8fgwADk3fhxGGsFRYzpid28jE/view?usp=sharing

Edited July 13, 2022 by randomTOTEN

[twanmal]

Thanks a lot for this detailed testing. I will check it.

Edited July 19, 2022 by twanmal
completed

[Foka1]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:41 AM, randomTOTEN said:

Since it appears that all we're doing is giving commands via the Petrovich menu to the native DCS AI pilot engine.

This is not correct. Petrovich AI has its own set of fly routines. It can be done that he would fly lazer sharp, but it was intentionally done to him having some pilot induced oscillations to be closer to real human flying. He is still quite skilled though, for instance try and go into hover from 200 KPH like he does.

[randomTOTEN]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, P61 said:

This is not correct.

Its unfortunate you did not read my further replies to this thread. You would have seen my own correction on this statement.

On 8/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, P61 said:

It can be done that he would fly lazer sharp, but it was intentionally done to him having some pilot induced oscillations to be closer to real human flying.

None of this is relevant to the problem in this thread. But thank you for mentioning it.

On 8/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, P61 said:

He is still quite skilled though, for instance try and go into hover from 200 KPH like he does.

You also did not view my posted track. He cannot fly in a straight line here.

That is not his fault. I lay blame with the mission itself. Which would be apparent in my further posts...

Edited August 30, 2022 by randomTOTEN

[Dantagonistic]

I started the ATGM training mission and successfully destroyed a couple of tanks from the front seat. The next part of the training explains how to control the gunner from the pilot seat. I bring up the helper and tell Petro to ready the weapons and then tell him to observe the area by looking at the tanks in the target range. The training voice over says I should see a list of targets pop up, but I can not seem to get it to appear, it's like Petro doesn't see any targets. I'm pretty sure the weapons are set up correctly as I can hear the tone when Petro's aim is within the inner circle. I play with an Oculus VR Rift S headset. This happened on 2/2 attempts at the training. I then tried the shooting range instant action mission and was able to engage targets successfully from the pilot seat with ATGMs using the methods learned in training, as the target list was appearing properly there.

[randomTOTEN]

Confirmed.

Also, when you are asked to take the rear seat to see the ASP symbology, Petrovich sets the station selector to OFF, disabling the launch tone, and breaking the training mission if you do not correct it (unprompted).

[RoXzz84]

Also confirmed.

Tried doing this same training mission stated above and having the same exact issues. Hope it gets resolved soon!!!

[randomTOTEN]

Impossible for Petrovich to lock the given targets in the "Guided Missile" training module. Breaks the lesson.

I thought the problem was related to the close proximity of the smoke, so I set units on my training mission and 5km range and spawned nearby smoke. I could not replicate the problem, so I think it's something else.

Mi24P-Training-2-ATGM Employment.miz_02052023_21-23.trk

[randomTOTEN]

Hi @Flappie

Took too long to respond in the thread,

Just want to say thank you for the diligent work you do in submitting bug reports for our beloved Hind. Keep up the good work!

Edited June 5, 2023 by randomTOTEN

[Flappie]

You're welcome!

You are right: something is off with this mission. I removed all scritps and suddenly Petrovitch had brand new eyes. I'll report this right away. Thanks for the heads up.

[randomTOTEN]

Wooohoo!!

[Hammer1-1]

I was using the guided missile training lesson and encountered a few issues with the mission. First I couldnt get Petrovich to see and designate any targets while the aircraft was in active pause, and the big one was when Petrovich was ordered to fly he just kept rotating around the vertical axis. He just kept spinning around in a circle at start and wouldnt stop. Track included, but cant guarantee it plays for anyone.

petrovich wonky training mission missiles.trk

[randomTOTEN]

 

[Hammer1-1]

11 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

 

TBF nobody mentioned Petrovich flying around in circles which is my main gripe

[randomTOTEN]

59 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

TBF nobody mentioned Petrovich flying around in circles which is my main gripe

Quote

During the mission, when it is asked to go as the gunner and activate petrovitch AI, the helicopters first behaves eratic and when it is asked to slow down to 0, the helicopter begins to spin and it never ends.

[Hammer1-1]

ok

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged