not planned MiG-25 (Foxbat) in DCS ?

[Logan54]

6 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

I told them if I get my docs they can have them. But DIA FOIA take eternity 

By the way, what if ED wants to get some documents as an organization? Will it be as long as yours? (It seems you answered "yes" earlier, but I forgot)

I agree with you about the large number of documents about the PD version on the web. Even some info about the Smerch radar capabilities. There is also documentation about the systems...But no PD aerodynamics...It's a bit strange to open access to different parts of different modifications. Anyway, Sofia says they have more information about RBT. But this means that no one has worked with the PD version yet. It looks like the MiG-25PD will enter the DCS when the pigs fly.

[bies]

5 hours ago, Logan54 said:

By the way, what if ED wants to get some documents as an organization? Will it be as long as yours? (It seems you answered "yes" earlier, but I forgot)

Now there is some nowe, even more paranoid law in Russia, basically prohibiting the collection of any information about military equipment. IIRC this was the main reason why ED was forced to abandon work on MiG-29 9.12 from mid 1980s.

[Iron_Man]

14 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

I told them if I get my docs they can have them. But DIA FOIA take eternity 

You can keep bugging them with follow ups on your request. Can you please share a link where these docs can be requested?

[Lyrode]

18小时前，Iron_Man说：

Too bad we get more F-15A, B, C, D, E and alike

I would be thrilled to know those 70s coldwar eagles are delivered.

Yet no, they are not in development, not even in announced plans.

 

[Iron_Man]

7 часов назад, Logan54 сказал:

By the way, what if ED wants to get some documents as an organization? Will it be as long as yours? (It seems you answered "yes" earlier, but I forgot)

I agree with you about the large number of documents about the PD version on the web. Even some info about the Smerch radar capabilities. There is also documentation about the systems...But no PD aerodynamics...It's a bit strange to open access to different parts of different modifications. Anyway, Sofia says they have more information about RBT. But this means that no one has worked with the PD version yet. It looks like the MiG-25PD will enter the DCS when the pigs fly.

Even with what we already have, the flight model can be simulated in the modern software (Solid Works, CATIA for example) based on the surface geometry of the plane and speed, weight and cg constraints. Better this than nothing. 

5 минут назад, Lyrode сказал:

I would be thrilled to know those 70s coldwar eagles are delivered.

Yet no, they are not in development, not even in announced plans.

 

We already have two versions of the F-15 and none of the MiG-25. We also have F-14, F-16, F-18 developed to an incredible level. Are they less classified than the MiG-25 from mid 1970s? 

[F-2]

13 minutes ago, Iron_Man said:

You can keep bugging them with follow ups on your request. Can you please share a link where these docs can be requested?

I use FOIA.gov

 

 

[Lyrode]

7分钟前，Iron_Man说：

Are they less classified than the MiG-25 from mid 1970s

Yes. If Russian Federation wouldn't allow it and would arrest your workers in Russia, then Mig-25 is as classified as the F-35.

[Iron_Man]

3 минуты назад, Lyrode сказал:

Yes. If Russian Federation wouldn't allow it and would arrest your workers in Russia, then Mig-25 is as classified as the F-35.

Respectfully, let’s be specific about it. What part of the design is that classified? Please check the manuals available on Vapor Labs discord channel (ambitious but eternity slow mod developers of the Foxbat). Even if we can get a module similar in development to DCS MiG-19P, that will be something to improve over time. 

Besides, it’s so easy to say, “it’s classified” and stop trying. There are ways, and with enough passionate people, things do get done. 

[Hatman335]

4 minutes ago, Iron_Man said:

Respectfully, let’s be specific about it. What part of the design is that classified? Please check the manuals available on Vapor Labs discord channel (ambitious but eternity slow mod developers of the Foxbat). Even if we can get a module similar in development to DCS MiG-19P, that will be something to improve over time. 

Besides, it’s so easy to say, “it’s classified” and stop trying. There are ways, and with enough passionate people, things do get done. 

When the potential risk of "trying to get things done" is an unpaid vacation to a Russian prison, it makes sense why people tend to be more cautious. If the Russian government does not allow the Mig-25 to be modelled, trying to find a sneaky way around it is not the ticket to a long and happy life.

[Iron_Man]

1 минуту назад, Hatman335 сказал:

When the potential risk of "trying to get things done" is an unpaid vacation to a Russian prison, it makes sense why people tend to be more cautious. If the Russian government does not allow the Mig-25 to be modelled, trying to find a sneaky way around it is not the ticket to a long and happy life.

Where is a prohibiting statement of the Russian Government not allowing to create a module of the MiG-25 in DCS? Seriously. Please, share with us a link or any specific relevant info. The RG doesn’t care about what modules are developed for DCS. We talk here NOT about circumventing any laws. We talk about making something happen based on the limited resources. We don’t aim at focusing on getting access to resources that are classified. Why the f@&k will we need metallurgic formula for stainless steel and titanium for the heat resistant airframe of the Foxbat? Come on fella…

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, Iron_Man said:

Please, share with us a link or any specific relevant info.

You're not the first and neither the last to ask for redfor aircraft. ED says it's very hard or impossible for anything remotely more modern than MiG-23.

Do your own research, you can even make the module yourself, but still it won't be allowed by ED in current state of affairs.

[Hatman335]

9 minutes ago, Iron_Man said:

Where is a prohibiting statement of the Russian Government not allowing to create a module of the MiG-25 in DCS? Seriously. Please, share with us a link or any specific relevant info.

Dunno, I don't speak Russian. You may have better luck asking about the laws on the Russian forum. I do know that Chizh has commented in English that due to the current state of affairs they are not willing to risk it and that's good enough for me. Since every dev knows that Russian jets would sell well, if the possibility is there, someone will eventually start working on it. This of course also depends on whether or not a dev team would think that a 70s era Mig-25P was a financially smart business decision to develop, which may not be the case at all.

[Logan54]

1 минуту назад, draconus сказал:

ED says it's very hard or impossible for anything remotely more modern than MiG-23.

Officially, we have Ka-50 III with RWR and Hind in DCS. Seems to me ED hadn`t any secret documentation of this helicopters. You also can see user agreement when you enter DCS, so seems to me, MiG-25PD also possible to see in DCS. As 3rd party? Why not?  Without top secret documents. Demand creates supply

[Lyrode]

5分钟前，Iron_Man说：

Where is a prohibiting statement of the Russian Government not allowing to create a module of the MiG-25 in DCS?

A country with thousands of laws and legislations and you ask a fellow to do the hard research... in Russian Language.

Put it this way, BS3 has planned features missing, Mig-29 haulted, their Mascow and Minsk studios canceled, no one is working with Russia to develop modules currently.

Tale is that as long as you develop software of military equipments of RUS with any linkage to foreign parts, arrest with simple process and ambigious name of crime.

 

Not working with oem and design bureau? Ok, remember how awful when the mirage2000 initially was, how razbam guessed everything basically wrong.

[BIGNEWY]

At this time we have no plans for a Mig-25 

Please keep the discussion friendly and away from politics or the thread will get closed down. 

thank you

[F-2]

13 minutes ago, Lyrode said:

A country with thousands of laws and legislations and you ask a fellow to do the hard research... in Russian Language.

Put it this way, BS3 has planned features missing, Mig-29 haulted, their Mascow and Minsk studios canceled, no one is working with Russia to develop modules currently.

Tale is that as long as you develop software of military equipments of RUS with any linkage to foreign parts, arrest with simple process and ambigious name of crime.

 

Not working with oem and design bureau? Ok, remember how awful when the mirage2000 initially was, how razbam guessed everything basically wrong.

I wouldn’t site the law without knowing it. ED has mentioned difficulties with doing red aircraft but has been ambiguous with older aircraft and third party. 

[Iron_Man]

53 минуты назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

At this time we have no plans for a Mig-25 

Please keep the discussion friendly and away from politics or the thread will get closed down. 

thank you

Dear BIGNEWY,

Thank you kindly for your response. As a member of the large sim community in the United States, I have always advocated for Soviet planes due to their equal historical importance in the virtual skies, as well as F-14, 16, 18. We understand that ED has no plans on working on the MiG-25 for whatever reason. Therefore we seek the community support for a third party developer who may take on this task. Unless the ED officially objects to bringing the Foxbat to life by any developer, we would like to proceed with our politically correct deliberations here and we humbly hope that the ED team keeps an open mind for, if not assisting but at least not causing obstacles for all the fans of this plane in the United States. The freedom of speech is important in this forum, as well as on this thread. Thank you for all your support. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Iron_Man

[BIGNEWY]

If a third party wanted to do any aircraft and they have access to unclassified public data we are happy for them to approach us with any potential project for consideration. 

Regarding free speech, this is a discussion forum for DCS and the rules can be found at the top of the page, as long as you stick to them the thread will remain open. Again, stay away from politics. 

thank you

[F-2]

14 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

If a third party wanted to do any aircraft and they have access to unclassified public data we are happy for them to approach us with any potential project for consideration. 

Regarding free speech, this is a discussion forum for DCS and the rules can be found at the top of the page, as long as you stick to them the thread will remain open. Again, stay away from politics. 

thank you

I really appreciate the clarification on the third party aircraft.

[FlankerKiller]

Honestly most of the aircraft I wish for on here is more aimed at the third party. I love the ED modules sure. But I would rather ED focus on the core of DCS. Let the third parties make fantastic modules for us to fly. Only ED can make the world for us to fly them in. That being said i’m buying that chinook. Unfortunately all the big third party developers have their hands full at the moment. But maybe one day we will get the Foxbat with multiple versions for its multiple missions. If we ever got a full world map, the fox that would really shine as an interceptor. With the map skills we have now don’t feel like you could really appreciate how important it speed was.

[Iron_Man]

31 минуту назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

If a third party wanted to do any aircraft and they have access to unclassified public data we are happy for them to approach us with any potential project for consideration. 

Regarding free speech, this is a discussion forum for DCS and the rules can be found at the top of the page, as long as you stick to them the thread will remain open. Again, stay away from politics. 

thank you

Thank you sir. The sufficient amount of unclassified public data may already exist and we would like to know what is exactly needed for the Foxbat, clearly there was enough material to develop other red modules as they are now. Please let us know what materials you need and we’ll look for it in the open sources online, we would like some reassuring cooperation or guidance here on this from the (potential) developers.
 

As for free speech - I’m free to share my opinion here as long as it aligns with the Rules of the forum. Nothing otherwise was implied. Clearly, I have not said anything yet to deserve a warning a priori. I firmly believe that we all here strive for a productive dialogue.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Iron_Man

[Iron_Man]

2 часа назад, draconus сказал:

You're not the first and neither the last to ask for redfor aircraft. ED says it's very hard or impossible for anything remotely more modern than MiG-23.

Do your own research, you can even make the module yourself, but still it won't be allowed by ED in current state of affairs.

What is the purpose of this response in this thread? 

[Iron_Man]

Again, all interested in MiG-25 folks myself included, would like to see where we stand and unite our efforts. We are not asking the ED to make this module on a whim or make a preference vs other modules. We want to see who is interested to take it further. 

[Iron_Man]

2 часа назад, Hatman335 сказал:

Dunno, I don't speak Russian. You may have better luck asking about the laws on the Russian forum. I do know that Chizh has commented in English that due to the current state of affairs they are not willing to risk it and that's good enough for me. Since every dev knows that Russian jets would sell well, if the possibility is there, someone will eventually start working on it. This of course also depends on whether or not a dev team would think that a 70s era Mig-25P was a financially smart business decision to develop, which may not be the case at all.

A jet capable of climbing 37 km high and flying M 2.8, would be an excellent module, especially with the Sinai map. Phantom is 70s era plane too, so how about that?

And by the way someone is making the F-104 Starfighter. The Cold War blue modules are as relevant as historically adequate red jets to fight against. 
 

https://stormbirds.blog/2023/08/25/aerges-announce-f-104-update-on-f1be-two-seater/

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Iron_Man

[Silver_Dragon]

3 hours ago, F-2 said:

I wouldn’t site the law without knowing it. ED has mentioned difficulties with doing red aircraft but has been ambiguous with older aircraft and third party. 

Wags has talked on the last Interview... If a 3rd party has no capable to get the propper info and a "not go".
 

Quote

- One of big issues to build a 4th gen Aircraft (include helos) has the documentation, and always with come to the game has from open sources and none secret or restricted. Meanwhile a part of the info has not open, the module develop not start. Build modules with reliable and available info and SME. If not get the necesary information, the module has "not go".
....
- Over problems with a module release about "sensible" info. Before release a module, ED contact with pymes to review them, if someone has not "public" or "sensible", ED remove them. On the AH-64, a number of items was no added to the module by the actual situation. The same situation with the comunity with rise "sensible" documents on the forum, has a "Not Go". Nothing as a Category B, C, official eyes only, etc, example some Grece F-16C docs on internet.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Silver_Dragon