SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[Yeti42]

Good job Polychop,  flight model is a huge improvement! I'm finding the trim a bit tricky though...

[Hiob]

The new flight model feels good.

Two things that are a bit strange (to me): When adding in collective when hovering in ground effect. After you get of the ground there comes a point where the lift just stops. Maybe correct,  but feels weird (no weapons, so very light).

Second. The tail yaw seems very aggressive. At least as far as the attitude ball is concerned. Seems not damped at all. Jumpy little fricker…

[jef32]

Hi. Impossible for me to enable stationary flight mode for taking the weapon officer place, since the update.

[Hiob]

4 minutes ago, jef32 said:

Hi. Impossible for me to enable stationary flight mode for taking the weapon officer place, since the update.

That is because it doesn’t exist anymore. Have you read the patch notes?

[jef32]

No I havn't read. So how can you use the officer place if you can't stabilize the helicopter ?

[Tuturuu]

Hey guys, would you have some tips for the curve you use on this new gazelle ? And how do you usually think during take-off ? 

I feel like i have huge pendulum (rolling heavily from one to another when changing direction) effect when being too slow and I can't really yet correct it smoothly.
During take-off I try to apply right rudder progresively to counter rotor but it feels like I also have to counter cyclic heavily toward left, is it because the Gazelle is so light ?

[Hiob]

From my first attempts: Position the cyclic a quarter inch left and back and give right pedal for take off. When you loose contact to the ground with one skid it may introduce a small roll motion. Be prepared and gentle on the collective.

I have a curvature of 10 on each cyclic axis and 90% Saturation. 

I find the anti torque pedals pretty sensitive.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Hiob

[Tuturuu]

Thanks starting directly with the cyclic already in position actually improved a lot my take-off, it's easier to correct the roll 
Also tried the axis tune settings and feels better too ! I need to train this small beast some more before judging the FM

[leonsilver]

Auto hover has been working fine so far. But now it fails to operate. What happened? 

[Hiob]

24 minutes ago, Tuturuu said:

Thanks starting directly with the cyclic already in position actually improved a lot my take-off, it's easier to correct the roll 
Also tried the axis tune settings and feels better too ! I need to train this small beast some more before judging the FM

The rotor head and tilt of the main shaft are usually build in a way, that you have the fuselage level when in cruising flight. That means the rotor is tilted forward when the controls are neutral. Therefore for take of you need to hold (or trim) the cyclic back a bit. (same for lateral)

1 minute ago, leonsilver said:

Auto hover has been working fine so far. But now it fails to operate. What happened? 

afaik it was never a thing in the real aircraft (at least not in the way it was implemented) and they removed the function for the time being.

[Danzig]

single pilot here -_- . Auto hover  is heavily needed. What a bummer!

[Eugel]

Auto-Collective has been removed, Auto-Hover is still in there, they even added an indicator light for it, but according to the patch notes under "known issues":

"Auto-hover (CVS and ALV modes) are work in progress and may not function reliably yet" - whatever that means. I haven´t managed to engage auto hover in the M-variant yet.

[jef32]

I use one joystick for piloting and for targeting. How can I do now to use the joystick to point the target and piloting if we haven't stationary function anymore ?

[Sprool]

3 minutes ago, jef32 said:

I use one joystick for piloting and for targeting. How can I do now to use the joystick to point the target and piloting if we haven't stationary function anymore ?

you'll have to wait till they sort it out and put it back in

[Moxica]

Had other plans in DCS today, but just I can't leave the Gazelle alone!
Thank you for this excellent update! Great job!

[stalhuth]

what a crap the new flight module 

[karasinicoff]

Thanks for updates..However,

Would you please fix the Mistral bug?

It keeps ringing and beeping no matter what the sight retracted and even run out of ammo.

Also there is no key binding on weapon panel on/off

[leonsilver]

3 hours ago, Danzig said:

egypilóta itt -_- . Az automatikus lebegtetésre nagy szükség van. Tök gáz!

That's right! 

[Schmidtfire]

3 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

Thanks for updates..However,

Would you please fix the Mistral bug?

It keeps ringing and beeping no matter what the sight retracted and even run out of ammo.

Also there is no key binding on weapon panel on/off

Mistral audio has nothing to do with sight being retracted or not. That was fixed in the Gazelle update and correct as is.

Audio when out of ammo seems like a bug.

[JABO2009]

14 hours ago, jef32 said:

No I havn't read. So how can you use the officer place if you can't stabilize the helicopter ?

same question , same issue . 

how ?? 

[yeti]

Good morning,

Since the last update, piloting the gazelle has become very difficult (regular crashes on takeoff and low altitude flight) do you have new curves for adjusting the cyclic and collective to make the flight a little more pleasant?

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, yeti said:

Good morning,

Since the last update, piloting the gazelle has become very difficult (regular crashes on takeoff and low altitude flight) do you have new curves for adjusting the cyclic and collective to make the flight a little more pleasant?

The key for a successful takeoff is to put the cyclic in the correct position before you apply collective. When you bring up the controls overlay, the cyclic should be a cm or so down and to the left. Then apply collective gradually and when she starts to torque turn, apply right pedal accordingly. Be prepared for a rolling momentum when the first skid leaves the ground and carefully but quickly adjust cyclic (don‘t over control). It is matter of getting the right feeling for the new behavior but the key is the first step.

She behaves like a real helicopter now, no arcade game anymore.

Edit: curves are a very individual thing. But I find her way to twitchy without curves. You may consider reducing the Y-Saturation instead of applying to much of a curve for a more linear reaction. 

10 hours ago, stalhuth said:

what a crap the new flight module 

What a crap post. How about you put in the effort and try to learn how to fly it?

Edit: The new FM is probably not perfect, but lightyears ahead of the old one. It is much closer now to all the other Helicopters in DCS. It has weight momentum and life. All of that was missing from the old one. unfortunately that means, that you can throw your muscle memory out of the window, when you only flew the gazelle.

 

Edit2: This is what the controls should look like for a stable take off (*depends a bit on weight though)

Edited June 10, 2023 by Hiob

[Danzig]

10 hours ago, Eugel said:

Auto-Collective has been removed, Auto-Hover is still in there, they even added an indicator light for it, but according to the patch notes under "known issues":

"Auto-hover (CVS and ALV modes) are work in progress and may not function reliably yet" - whatever that means. I haven´t managed to engage auto hover in the M-variant yet.

"not function reliably yet" seems to be the case.  i can "activate" the auto hover anytime according to the check light. But acticated under know parameters (old FM)  in the air it seems quite noch working. drivting away, spinning around. 

 

sad Gazelle noises

[karasinicoff]

I try to fly the NEW gazelle today. Thanks Polychop for amazing updates.

However, she is no longer able to fight in helo dog fights and hunting jets.

I have shot down 500 jets in GS server with mistral but new flight model ruins all my skills.

I love the feeling about the new flight model which seems more realistic.

BUT!! the engine is way toooo weak . only 1450kg weight even struggle to move around.

Try to reach 100km/hour, it takes much longer than my 20 years old car.

All good but Engine power must be improved.

Also.. 50cal gun sound effect.. please, make it better

Edited June 10, 2023 by karasinicoff

[Gizmokev]

For those of you interested here are the docs used by PC to ensure the S&L trim settings are correct according to the NASA test data.

Essentially all the trim data came from there. There was some artistic licence applied for speeds above 148kts to allow for RBS and other such things.

Once these were in it was merely a case of refining the feel of the cyclic and collective to make sure she feels as close to the real thing as I can remember.

Regards the ability to take off. You will need to pre-position to cyclic to the left and rear (look at the trim data). Pull collective and watch the nose as it starts to move left and counter with right pedal and at the same time correct any lateral movement with the cyclic until you reach a 5ft stable hover.

I strongly recommend flying with no centering springs to get the truest feeling of the FM and how you need to position the cyclic now. I would imagine a lot of the oscillations are PIO from over correcting/pushing against the springs/being used to the old FM.

NASA Data 0-40kts with grids.pdf NASA Data 40-160kts with grids.pdf

Edited June 10, 2023 by Gizmokev
Writing style