Optimization of map, specially in VR

[skywalker22]

I still didn't try it on monitor, but in VR it's really not that good, specially when flying low over the big cities. Way worse then on any other map.

It's true, I'm still in the process of optimizing my new Quest Pro, but as said, on other maps, game runs very decent, here on Sinai I have stutters over cities.

What are your observations so far?

[Major Corvus]

24 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

I still didn't try it on monitor, but in VR it's really not that good, specially when flying low over the big cities. Way worse then on any other map.

It's true, I'm still in the process of optimizing my new Quest Pro, but as said, on other maps, game runs very decent, here on Sinai I have stutters over cities.

What are your observations so far?

Yes it's the same for me too as I only fly in VR. At the moment it looks quite blurry with lots of shimmer using my regular DCS settings.

It's a good looking map at altitude though, so fingers crossed for further optimisations

Edited June 9, 2023 by Major Corvus
spelling

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Just off from my 1st VR session. I set the ground texture to high and still, at <500ft over down town Cairo, I still get 70+fps, but it studders very noticeable when looking everywhere but straight ahead. in F-16C, I heard it were something to do with the new radar on Viper and Hornet. Need to verify this claim.

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Sucks in VR, almost unplayable.  Typical ER of DCS et all.   I cannot get more that 60 fps, lots of stutters, with all settings set low.  And I have a I9-12900K with 3090, 64 mb.  Waste of my money at this time.

[Lace]

I was struggling at first but then set the draw distance down to medium and am getting very good results now.  Obviously everyone has their own take on the whole quality/performance compromise, but as a VR flyer with a laptop 3080 I think the performance is as good as any other map, and still better than the Marianas.  Tested so far with the Gazelle, Mi-8 and Viper.

[dutchili]

visible range really helps indeed and Medium is still sort of nice.
I also have the stutters when looking 90 degrees left or right over cities.
The FPS meter in DCS is not to be trusted in my opinion. Perceived FPS is not the same as measured/reported FPS.

I suppose this is again VRAM, insufficient multi-threading for pre-rendering and synching between threats. Hoping vulcan is released soon and other improvements give us 2d performance in 3d.

 

[RampantCoyote]

Okay, this is kinda weird. I use a Pimax 8KX, and I was amazed at how smoothly it was running over the middle of Cairo last night. Granted, I've tuned my system as well as I can for VR, and I was running the Multi-Threaded client. I thought it ran better than Marianas. 

Were you folks with VR issues running on the MT client? What are your shadow settings set to? (I am not at my home system, so I can't check...)

I am running on a 6900XT, so about the equivalent performance of a 3080.

[westr]

1 hour ago, RampantCoyote said:

Okay, this is kinda weird. I use a Pimax 8KX, and I was amazed at how smoothly it was running over the middle of Cairo last night. Granted, I've tuned my system as well as I can for VR, and I was running the Multi-Threaded client. I thought it ran better than Marianas. 

Were you folks with VR issues running on the MT client? What are your shadow settings set to? (I am not at my home system, so I can't check...)

I am running on a 6900XT, so about the equivalent performance of a 3080.

Just about to not bother with this then I read your view.^^ I’m torn, but overall what I’m reading is not very positive from a VR perspective.
I’m tired of buying maps and not using them though, Persian Gulf, Caucasus and the Channel work well for me. Urga maps are playable but with the growing tree issue in VR I have to set those maps to high visible range which hits performance and I prefer other maps. And For me Marianas was just a waste of money. And South Atlantic stutters badly over populated areas. 

could somebody advise, does this map have the growing tree issue like the Urga media maps in VR where you see the trees and buildings grow as you fly along? 

Edited June 9, 2023 by westr

[rubbra]

I'm on a lowly Rift S, 1080ti, i5 8th gen, and it's the best performing map by far, with the odd stutter here and there low over cities, but I get that on every map.

The growing tree thing mentioned above is to do with visibility distance; the higher you have that, the further out the trees grow. Applies to all maps. Edit: wanted to make it clear that Caucasus suffers from the same inflatable trees issues, it’s not just ugra  maps. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by rubbra

[Steel Jaw]

Wondering about VR performance as well.   You can't trust the sim fps counter.  I just go by if it's stutter free.

[Stackup]

4 hours ago, westr said:

And For me Marianas was just a waste of money.

But it's free...

[Kiwi_Viper]

well i only fly VR my pico4 gets 90fps constant no problem, the G2 gets 65-70fps with the openxr toolkit so i dont what you guys are doing but its smooth as here with everything on max settings.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

2-parter, second part uploading to YouTube...

I find this OB version has issue with frame time in general which explains the issue some what. And London is worse in this OB, even though it looks not as busy as Cairo

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Part 2, see how it runs in Quest Pro, all videos are in headset. I use the OpenXR Toolkit Developer mode details display here.

The frame rate is great as the world has no other AI thing going on, also note the efficient use of VRAM is astonishing (compare this with Caucasus forest, London and Paris) Still there are very minor stuttering when one does not look too straight, but not showing much in the video. "Growing tree" problem is not gone, given I keep my "forest settings" in check to medium, it is not as bad as the Normandy 2 map with the same settings. It is much more noticeable when ridding on a chopter. I have made one in Huey but I need time to put it up on YouTube. I am busy with other non-flying stuff, even over weekends.

In general, the frame rate and frame time are 2 very different things. I am no expert here but I think both contribute to the smoothness. In DCS VR, the frames can show up very quickly on screen but when the frame time is not so good, then the display seems to "skip frame" giving various levels of studdering. The worse offender I managed to catch "on camera" was dogfighting a Flanker in Caucasus:

Sorry a lot of self-promo here. Note that at around 1'06", on the left, the Flanker is "skipping" into the view.

I have no idea how it happens, as I have no fix either. Just an observation. Thanks for watching.

Edited June 10, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[cfrag]

Well, I'm mounting a Vive Pro 2, fed by a lowly 2080Ti while flying the Zelle and Huey through Tel Aviv.

Obviously, this is a personal preference thing, just like in may others: what I may deem as perfectly acceptable, my significant other denounces as sloppy (and not only when discussing my attire when visiting her parents). So I will not say that the performance is great in absolute terms; instead I will say that Sinai's performance in VR serves to put a happy smile on my face. Each to their own, I guess. 

[skywalker22]

3 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Part 2, see how it runs in Quest Pro, all videos are in headset. I use the OpenXR Toolkit Developer mode details display here.

The frame rate is great as the world has no other AI thing going on, also note the efficient use of VRAM is astonishing (compare this with Caucasus forest, London and Paris) Still there are very minor stuttering when one does not look too straight, but not showing much in the video. "Growing tree" problem is not gone, given I keep my "forest settings" in check to medium, it is not as bad as the Normandy 2 map with the same settings. It is much more noticeable when ridding on a chopter. I have made one in Huey but I need time to put it up on YouTube. I am busy with other non-flying stuff, even over weekends.

In general, the frame rate and frame time are 2 very different things. I am no expert here but I think both contribute to the smoothness. In DCS VR, the frames can show up very quickly on screen but when the frame time is not so good, then the display seems to "skip frame" giving various levels of studdering. The worse offender I managed to catch "on camera" was dogfighting a Flanker in Caucasus:

Sorry a lot of self-promo here. Note that at around 1'06", on the left, the Flanker is "skipping" into the view.

I have no idea how it happens, as I have no fix either. Just an observation. Thanks for watching.

 

What hardware do you have?

Regarding replay: looks good indeed, even your settings are petty mid-low though.

What's the resolution and frequency that you have set for VR?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

My PC Spec (it is on my YouTube channel, BTW)

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB RAM 3600MHz, MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK (MS-7C91), DCS on Seagate FireCuda 530, MSI RTX 4090 Ventus 3X

Quest Pro Setting is below.

As suggested, setting "Low Latency" on NVIDIA Control Panel to "ultra" helps.

Again, I suspect the frame time is lower in this OB version, but some how, it improves the sense of speed relative to the ground, but not the bandit you are BFMing...

Edited June 10, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[skywalker22]

2 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

My PC Spec (it is on my YouTube channel, BTW)

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB RAM 3600MHz, MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK (MS-7C91), DCS on Seagate FireCuda 530, MSI RTX 4090 Ventus 3X

Quest Pro Setting is below.

As suggested, setting "Low Latency" on NVIDIA Control Panel to "ultra" helps.

Again, I suspect the frame time is lower in this OB version, but some how, it improves the sense of speed relative to the ground, but not the bandit you are BFMing...

 

Thx, set the Low Latency to Ultra. Will test it.

But also of course, 4090 does the difference. I am waiting for new my MSI Suprim to come in few days  Thx for 

[skywalker22]

Btw, @VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants why do you have shadows on "Flat Only"? Isn't very ugly not having "real" shadows? The cockpit shadowing is pretty ugly.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, gortex said:

The only map that runs really well in VR for me is NTTR.  Caucasus is decent, but everything else is bad enough that I'd rather fly in 2d.

All of the newer maps seem made for helicopter pilots and 4k screenshot jockies.

You need better hardware, Caucasus is very easy to run even on pretty old hardware. But if a map struggles to run on 3080/3090 then it is a problem.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Razor68

[skywalker22]

Seems that with changing some of the Graphics parameters in the DCS and Low Latency to Ultra (Nvidia Control panel) did the trick for my configuration i7 1700K, 64GB, and EVGA 3080 Ti. Optimization is now way better, I cannot see all the building in the distance any more (like I did before), and this, it seems, it does the trick.

These settings are for Quest Pro headset.

Edited June 10, 2023 by skywalker22

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

34 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Btw, @VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants why do you have shadows on "Flat Only"? Isn't very ugly not having "real" shadows? The cockpit shadowing is pretty ugly.

Personal taste for better performance.

19 minutes ago, Razor68 said:

You need better hardware, Caucasus is very easy to run even on pretty old hardware. But if a map struggles to run on 3080/3090 then it is a problem.

 

No! Caucasus can be very hard to run, there are part of this map you should go alone...

[YoYo]

Weird, I feel completely different. The map works great, except for Cairo of course, but Cairo itself performs better than London in Normandy 2 (over Cair I have about 60+ fps, over London 45+). Other parts of the map - textures good, FPS at 72 frames, stable (I have 72Hz without Motion Reprojection), smooth like a butter. I can't complain about the performance. I think it's a matter of hardware for some and maybe settings.

What I would like in DCS is to turn off some detail of buildings, some special LOD for VR that can be turned on, but this question is not for @OnReTech only but for ED mostly. All in all, why do I need a standing bike in VR on the ground or phone booths in London. This affects performance and is a problem in really big cities like London. There should be a mode for VR that reduces details as on/off for VR users. An example is the Marianas, e.g. still the worst map in terms of VR (Guam).

Just idea for @Flappie ;).

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

If you are riding a chopter over Cairo, note there are some multi-story buildings with a lots of things on them -- small air con on the sides, not to mention the dishes et al on the roof. Fun part, they do not hit the performance (fps and frame time) that much! I serious dunno what magic @OneReTech is playing with.

The Huey video is uploading now, will post once it is ready.

Edited June 10, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[skywalker22]

4 minutes ago, gortex said:

I need a better cpu, not gpu.  The fps counter clearly tells me the cpu is my bottleneck in VR.  That will have to wait for my next build.

My goal is to be over 80 frames per second.  I can get 60 fps over e.g. Syria in VR, but that's not enough for a good experience imo.

I hope you do use MT. Have you tested CPU with MSI Afterburner all? You can put all the cores on the screen, and you can see how much is each occupied. This way you will see if the CPU is bottleneck or not. Same goes for all the other components in PC.