cannot reproduce New radar functions cause a lot of stuttering in VR - latest OB

[Flappie]

56 minutes ago, stonewall197922 said:

I solved this issue by moving dcs to ssd(was previously on hdd) and setting page file to 32 gb (have already 32 gb of ram)on a separate from dcs ssd. My conclusion: after latest ob patch aa radar reads more data during mission from disk. If total bandwidth (disks are slow, not enough of ram, small pagefile or it located on a slow disk or the same disk where dcs is located) is not enough you will see fps drop.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm glad it works for you now.

[stonewall197922]

I had perfomance issues with dcs when i had 16 gb of ram. Not many of us during mission tacking notes of ram usage. Total ram usage (system apps and others) with Syria map takes about 25gb of ram plus page file. Recently, i thinking  to the end of the year, buy 64gb. But currently 32 suits me well. To be honest i suspected that my case is due lack of drive speed or memory. When you move in game straight forward you will get freeze when next location is  being loaded. But freezes during turns (changing direction) indicates that is something loaded and load speed is slow for that amount of data. About hdd, theres alot of good enterprise grade hdds, but they cost much more, and becouse of that much less popular between ordinary customer. I think dcs can be run from good hdd but amount of ram must be at least 64.

P.s. Thank you for your help Flappie.

My suggestion maybe video with counter helps to get a clue with others issues?

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by stonewall197922

[Flappie]

Just like Swift, I'm amazed you could play with DCS installed on HDD without too many stuttering before. The sim keeps loading files throughout the game session, which is why a SSD is needed.

6 minutes ago, stonewall197922 said:

 I think dcs can be run from good hdd but amount of ram mast be at least 64.

32 GB of RAM + a 32GB pagefile (on SSD) does the job, but if I were to advise someone building a new PC for DCS, I'd definitely tell him/her to get 64 GB of RAM.

[stonewall197922]

23 минуты назад, Flappie сказал:

Just like Swift, I'm amazed you could play with DCS installed on HDD without too many stuttering before. The sim keeps loading files throughout the game session, which is why a SSD is needed.

Well, you can now understand my amusenment when after that patch i get freezes (correction that hard freezes and frequent). I think current incresed data load is due radar is still wip.

Example of freezes radar on(first screenshot) and off (last one) From hdd, Syria. Currently everything is smooth. I hope my experience will help to someone.

Edited June 16, 2023 by stonewall197922

[Gryzor]

8 hours ago, stonewall197922 said:

I solved this issue by moving dcs to ssd(was previously on hdd) and setting page file to 32 gb (have already 32 gb of ram)on a separate from dcs ssd. My conclusion: after latest ob patch aa radar reads more data during mission from disk. If total bandwidth (disks are slow, not enough of ram, small pagefile or it located on a slow disk or the same disk where dcs is located) is not enough you will see fps drop.

Do you have installed DCS on the same drive that are installed Windows 10? or in a different drive? can you give me what are your specs? S.O, graphics card and SSD drives, also CPU and RAM.

I have installed DCS on a M2 SSD drive 2TB 5000MB/S (DCS and Windows 10 on the same drive). The page file (32GB) is on other SSD driver (PCI drive, 560 MB/S, Samsung EVO 870). I moved also the page file to M2 SSD 2TB, and I continue noticing the stuttering.

What I noticed is that if I reload the trks after playing once, the second time stuttering is not so huge. But If I reset the PC, the first load stuttering appears. Maybe you didn´t notice the stuttering on the second mission load? have you tried to reset completely your PC?

One of my testes: if I load trks while I have put in Nvidia a limit of 60 fps, suttering is not noticeable (it seems that SSD could feed my GPU at 60 Hz), but If I put FPS limit to 120fps (ideal for my 4090 card), suttering during AA radar ON appears.

[stonewall197922]

9 часов назад, Gryzor сказал:

Do you have installed DCS on the same drive that are installed Windows 10? or in a different drive? can you give me what are your specs? S.O, graphics card and SSD drives, also CPU and RAM.

I have installed DCS on a M2 SSD drive 2TB 5000MB/S (DCS and Windows 10 on the same drive). The page file (32GB) is on other SSD driver (PCI drive, 560 MB/S, Samsung EVO 870). I moved also the page file to M2 SSD 2TB, and I continue noticing the stuttering.

What I noticed is that if I reload the trks after playing once, the second time stuttering is not so huge. But If I reset the PC, the first load stuttering appears. Maybe you didn´t notice the stuttering on the second mission load? have you tried to reset completely your PC?

One of my testes: if I load trks while I have put in Nvidia a limit of 60 fps, suttering is not noticeable (it seems that SSD could feed my GPU at 60 Hz), but If I put FPS limit to 120fps (ideal for my 4090 card), suttering during AA radar ON appears.

I don`t have M2 drives.   Windows 10 is installed on Kingston SATA SSD, pagefile is located on other Sata SSD (WD) and DCS is installed on newly bought Sata Samsung EVO 870 SSD. Specs: Core I5 11400, RTX3060TI, 32 gb DDR +32 page file. Stutters can occur but rare and not disturbing. In my case FPS drops (freezes) were frequent  and  down to 10 or lower fps (when game tried load data from disk when AA radar was ON). As  said earlier i think in current patch radar reads something alot due still WIP.  it will be optimized in next patches i think. I`m in doubt how stutters can even occur on a system like yours. My suggestion move page file to drive with Windows 10 and move dcs to other separate drive.

Edited June 16, 2023 by stonewall197922

[Gryzor]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:13 AM, stonewall197922 said:

I don`t have M2 drives.   Windows 10 is installed on Kingston SATA SSD, pagefile is located on other Sata SSD (WD) and DCS is installed on newly bought Sata Samsung EVO 870 SSD. Specs: Core I5 11400, RTX3060TI, 32 gb DDR +32 page file. Stutters can occur but rare and not disturbing. In my case FPS drops (freezes) were frequent  and  down to 10 or lower fps (when game tried load data from disk when AA radar was ON). As  said earlier i think in current patch radar reads something alot due still WIP.  it will be optimized in next patches i think. I`m in doubt how stutters can even occur on a system like yours. My suggestion move page file to drive with Windows 10 and move dcs to other separate drive.

 

I have also the same stuttering in OB version with F-18/F-16 radar ON in AA

[Flappie]

38 minutes ago, Blue Giant said:

Completely unable to play the game normally.

This is not how this part of the forum works. If you want help, please attach:

1. your dcs.log (from Saved Games/DCS.../Logs)
2. your dxdiag loh (see https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Obtaining-a-DXDIAG-log-for-diagnostics-and-troubleshooting-issues-with-graphic-cards.html)
3. your options.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Config)
4. screenshots of your NVIDIA or AMD GPU settings

A better description of your symptoms would also be helpful: which aircraft? which terrain? when does it start? wen does it end?

[skywalker22]

6 minutes ago, Blue Giant said:

Thank you, but I just want to say goodbye to this game.

You can still paste a track, before you are gone

And btw, seems that you are the only one (or very very minority) who is unable to play dcs. Isn't that strange?

[Gryzor]

6 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

You can still paste a track, before you are gone

And btw, seems that you are the only one (or very very minority) who is unable to play dcs. Isn't that strange?

In relation to AA stuttering radar in F18 and F16: Maybe you don´t notice those stuttering. Maybe its something related to a specific option I have put, or maybe others have some stuttering here and there and don´t notice those stutters (thinking that is normal. An example, if i limit DCS with nvidia inspector to 45 or 60 fps, simulating other PC configs like others with less equipment than my 4090 GPU, I hardly can notice them also... due I´m limited by GPU all the time. The CPU, SSD, ... are fresh and could have enoguht ms to load data...).

What I dont understand: if I back to an older version (2 patches ago), I have completely fluid experience - constant perfomance, in 2D at 120 fps sustained (even big cities with many units) - also in VR at 72 fps sustained (Pico 4, godlike mode), in MT.

I tested reverting back yesterday just to check if it was something related to W10 update, or config... nothing. Completely fluid with 2 patches ago. Reverted back to current beta version and having stuttering that I don´t had... so my conclussion: there is something else introduced in the code that lead to some stutters (however... the sim is playable. But not so nice...).

Edited June 23, 2023 by Gryzor

[skywalker22]

2 minutes ago, Gryzor said:

In relation to AA stuttering radar in F18 and F16: Maybe you don´t notice those stuttering. Maybe its something related to a specific option I have put, or maybe others have some stuttering here and there and don´t notice those stutters (thinking that is normal, if i limit to 45 or 60 fps like others with less than 4090 card, maybe I couldnt notice also).

What I dont understand: if I back to an older version (2 patches ago), I have completely fluid experience - constant perfomance, in 2D at 120 fps sustained (even big cities with many units) - also in VR at 72 fps sustained (Pico 4, godlike mode), in MT.

I tested reverting back yesterday just to check if it was something related to W10 update, or config... nothing. Completely fluid with 2 patches ago. Reverted back to current beta version and having stuttering that I don´t had... so my conclussion: there is something else introduced in the code that lead to some stutters (however... the sim is playable. But not so nice...).

 

Is it only happening in F/A-18 and on specific map(s)? What about flying other planes? I get some stuttering for example in F-16 on Sinai map (when doing a split-s maneuver) close to the ground (not up high).

[Gryzor]

7 hours ago, Flappie said:

This is not how this part of the forum works. If you want help, please attach:

1. your dcs.log (from Saved Games/DCS.../Logs)
2. your dxdiag loh (see https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Obtaining-a-DXDIAG-log-for-diagnostics-and-troubleshooting-issues-with-graphic-cards.html)
3. your options.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Config)
4. screenshots of your NVIDIA or AMD GPU settings

A better description of your symptoms would also be helpful: which aircraft? which terrain? when does it start? wen does it end?

Flappie: I will try to upload also those info.

[Gryzor]

1 minute ago, skywalker22 said:

Is it only happening in F/A-18 and on specific map(s)? What about flying other planes? I get some stuttering for example in F-16 on Sinai map (when doing a split-s maneuver) close to the ground (not up high).

Other planes (I have everything in the sim except F1 Mirage) works as ever. F14, M-2000, JA-37, JF-17, FC3 fighters.... none of these planes or radars make any stutters. Only stutter in AA mode in F-16 and F-18. Occours less in PGulf and Caucasus (sutter in PG is minimal, only at low level at dubay or just after takeoff), it is more noticeable in Syria, Sinai or Normandy.

Its is very noticeable: a big stuttering the first time you load in memory any map, in a very specific situation: just after takeoff (in the same moment that the wheels leaves touhing the runway). if I reload the map or mission... no suttering in that moment. If I quit DCS and start again.... no stuttering in that moment. I have to reboot Windows 10 and reload the sim.

[Gryzor]

I attach 2 tracks. One with radar ON, other with radar OFF. Look at fps graph. JUST after the plane leves de runway, there is a BIG stutter which is not present with radar OFF. Even I inclued a picture of that event.

I attach a first picture with these stutters, and another picture with radar OFF and normal flight (my FPS at 4k over a Syria big city, maximum detail (ultra, MSAA 2X, SSAO, etc..), no stuttering, over 100 FPS sustained (4090), 32 GB RAM, SSD 2TB, pagefile 32TB (in another drive)

In addition, I attach:

- DCS.log

- Options.lua

- Nvidia screenshots

- DXDiag

picture with radar ON - BIG stuttering just after F-18 leaves the runway (just when radar switch on automatically)

picture with radar OFF - Normal flight, over big city and near 120 fps sustained, no stutter, smoth as silk...

Nvidia Config

Pagefile --> is aTB Sabrent Rocket over 5000 MB/S, I have DCS and W10 on that drive. Swapfile is at other SSD (Samsung 860 EVO) in F:

Only F-18 and F-16 cause these stutters related to radar, concretely in AA mode (AG mode do not cause stutters). Other AC M-2000, Mig-21, JA-37, JF17, FC planes, F-14... do not cause any stutters with radar ON.

Plase Flappie, pass this info to ED developers, reverting 2 patches ago do not causes any issues, the sim is completely smooth for me (even in Cairo with many units or normandy).

 

F-18 Syria Take-off NO_Stutter.miz.trk F-18 Syria Take-off_Stutter.miz.trk dcs.log options.lua DxDiag.txt

Edited June 24, 2023 by Gryzor

[Gryzor]

Any news about this? I think I attached the necessary files

[Flappie]

Than you for the tracks. I still cannot reproduce the radar-induced FPS loss (pancake). On my rig, performance is equal when replaying your tracks.

I'll ask my fellow testers to give your "Stutter" track a go in VR.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Flappie

[Gryzor]

33 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Than you for the tracks. I still cannot reproduce the radar-induced FPS loss (pancake). On my rig, performance is equal when replaying your tracks.

I'll ask my fellow testers to give your "Stutter" track a go in VR.

 

Thanks Flappie. I getting mad with it... I dont understand why reverting back to other version its completely smooth. And with F-15E in the last OB version, also is completely smooth. Can you review my files attached so It could be found something more I miss?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Gryzor

[Flappie]

You seem to be missing a texture called "noise" and you also have some IC issues. That's all I see in your logs.

2023-06-24 13:02:22.870 WARNING SECURITYCONTROL (Main): IC fail: mods/aircraft/fa-18c/cockpit/scripts/multipurpose_display_group/common/indicator/mdg_strokesdefs.lua
...
2023-06-24 13:02:22.955 WARNING SECURITYCONTROL (Main): IC fail: mods/aircraft/fa-18c/cockpit/scripts/tews/device/cmds_ale47.lua
...
2023-06-24 13:02:34.522 INFO    Dispatcher (Main): loadMission Done: Сontrol passed to the player
2023-06-24 13:03:11.433 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (3664): texture 'noise4.png' not found. Asked from ''

 

Have you tried a DCS cleanup and repair yet?

I doubt it will help since you are not the only one reporting the issue, but it's worth a try.

[Gryzor]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

You seem to be missing a texture called "noise" and you also have some IC issues. That's all I see in your logs.

2023-06-24 13:02:22.870 WARNING SECURITYCONTROL (Main): IC fail: mods/aircraft/fa-18c/cockpit/scripts/multipurpose_display_group/common/indicator/mdg_strokesdefs.lua
...
2023-06-24 13:02:22.955 WARNING SECURITYCONTROL (Main): IC fail: mods/aircraft/fa-18c/cockpit/scripts/tews/device/cmds_ale47.lua
...
2023-06-24 13:02:34.522 INFO    Dispatcher (Main): loadMission Done: Сontrol passed to the player
2023-06-24 13:03:11.433 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (3664): texture 'noise4.png' not found. Asked from ''

 

Have you tried a DCS cleanup and repair yet?

I doubt it will help since you are not the only one reporting the issue, but it's worth a try.

No solution... yes, I cleaned (full clean) and nothing.

[lwalter]

Same here: F/A 18 radar causes lots of stuttering in VR. It's not so much a FPS loss but very unstable FPS, especially every time you point the plane nose to another direction.

Just pushing the "SIL" OSB to silence the radar removes all stuttering.

[Gryzor]

1 hour ago, lwalter said:

Same here: F/A 18 radar causes lots of stuttering in VR. It's not so much a FPS loss but very unstable FPS, especially every time you point the plane nose to another direction.

Just pushing the "SIL" OSB to silence the radar removes all stuttering.

Yes, its specially noticeable when changing heading. I hope this will be fixed in next patch. What I supress to me is this bug is not acknowled by ED.

[NineLine]

8 hours ago, Gryzor said:

Yes, its specially noticeable when changing heading. I hope this will be fixed in next patch. What I supress to me is this bug is not acknowled by ED.

We have not been able to reproduce it yet, so we can't really acknowledge it as a bug or as reported until we can. Sorry.

[Gryzor]

53 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We have not been able to reproduce it yet, so we can't really acknowledge it as a bug or as reported until we can. Sorry.

I will change all my PC in the next week (appart of my 4090 wich it would be mantain, I will have a new CPU 7800X3D, new 64GB DDR5 6000mhz CL30, new 2xSSD 990PRO, new W10...) so I would test again. What it is clear at least in my case or my system (SSD, 32GB DDR4 3600mhz, 5900X... high end PC) is it that no stutters are with previous versions. Thanks NineLine for your quick reply.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Gryzor

[MrReynolds]

Just to pipe in.

My DCS is running smooth as butter. 

As soon as I get into an A-A engagement my computer almost locks up with HUGE stutters.  Maybe two or three 10 second freezes?  

At first I thought it was FLIR on my left MFD - but this last encounter I had it off.  What was bad was the RWR warnings.  I think maybe I had 3 planes engaging me.

I couldn't move so obviously I get shot out of the sky.  Once the burning wreck is falling to the ground everything is buttery smooth again.

Running MT with 32gig RAM.

Just been on MP - single thread.  Thought it was okay, but boom...................again.  Fire, try to break away and stutter.  ONLY in A-A engagements.  BVR seems okay.  It's when we're <10 miles out generally.

Edited August 6, 2023 by MrReynolds

[Match]

On 7/23/2023 at 11:27 PM, NineLine said:

We have not been able to reproduce it yet, so we can't really acknowledge it as a bug or as reported until we can. Sorry.

I'm having the same problem in flat screen every time i fly the F/a-18 even in the free flight instant action. I found this thread yesterday and i've tried to turn off the radar: stuttering almost fully disappeared, just some sporadic very little freeze that i always have. 

Some info and feedback: 

• The stutters doesn't appears when i fly the other module i own, the mb-339
• The stutters reduce when the radar is off
• The stutters are heavier at the first F-18 flight of the first run of the game since the system startup (i need to check this more)
• The stutters occurs even with settings set to low
• First Loading of the instant action on Caucaso and even other mission takes more than 3:30/4:00 minutes and the loading bar seems stucked in a couple of specific points (can't remember now, but i will update when i came back home)
• DCS is running without any mods
• The stutters occurs both in MT and ST
• The stutters occurs both with G-Sync on and off
• Check hardware and done all the stability test with OCCT: System stable, other games and sims (and other module here on DCS) runs smooth
• DCS is installed on the main NVMe, the same where run the OS
• Paging File set to 30 gb (30720mb) for both min and max on a secondary NVMe
• Power managment is running at best performance settings
• Excluded for some possible fix which i tried (see those below), the Nvidia Control Pannel setting are set on deafult settings

Some possible fix i've tried:

• (at the first occur of the problem, almost a months ago) Run a clean up and repair: no changes
• (at the first occur of the problem, almost a months ago) Run a clean installation of DCS: no changes, just a little speed up in loading time but they slow down again after some days
• Run a clean of DCS Shaders: no changes
• Run a clean of Nvidia Shaders, and DirectX cache: no chages
• Run a full remove and clean installation of Nvidia Driver
• Try to not run Open Track in background: no differences
• Try to not run MSI Afterburner in background (i use it only to trim the GPU Fans and to monitor the temperature and usage graphs): no differences
• Try to set MFD res to 1024 every frames as suggested in another thread: no differences
• Try to set an fps cap from Nvidia control pannel: with radar on no changes, with radar frame time more stable.
• Try to fully deactivate the Paging File: no differences
• Try to stop "power" service: no change but i'vo tryed this long time ago and i've to check again to be sure
• Try to set Thread Optimization off in Nvidia Control Pannel: no differences
• Try to run both with DRAM XMP profile on and off: no differences
• Try to turn off Hot Plug function: no differences
• Try to force DCS to not record track: no differences, i turn it on again after the test

I think I also made other attempts that I don't remember now. I will update the post if I can remember them and if I make other attempts.

I have made some videos of the defect which if they can help I can share.  
I have not saved the flight tracks yet, I know they are needed along with the log, I will share everything with you as soon as I can spare a few minutes for further testing.

Of course if you should have any suggestions or would like to do specific tests I am completely available, I have run out of ideas on possible solutions.

 

Other info that i think is not releated, i'm giving you those only to be the most precise that i can: 

• the pc was formatted and reinstalled windows a few months ago for a general cleaning. Since then DCS has always worked perfectly until this problem appeared.
• almost a couple of week after the first occurs of the problem I had a problem with a mechanical hdd used exclusively as storage, this was causing paging errors even though it was not being used for this function. I replaced it with a sata ssd and the errors on the event viewer disappeared, I was hoping that was what was causing the stutters but they continued even after replacing it. Currently I think I can rule out a correlation
• also recently I performed a bios update to fix (apparently partially ) a known error on tpm that occurred with a windows 11 update installed some months ago. 

• Also around this time, it seems to me a bit before the hdd malfunction and perhaps after an Nvidia driver update, the motherboard manufacturer's splash screen at pc startup became "bigger" lowering in resolution. I noticed that this only happened with fast boot active and that the damaged hard disk prevented fast boot from working properly. Replacing the drive made fast boot work properly again but the splash screen remained that way. I subsequently disabled fast boot but still occasionally this screen would appear in low resolution. With the bios update, on the other hand, the whole screen seems to have disappeared altogether, but it too would seem to be a known bug. Here again I doubt there could be any correlation since the other modules on dcs work properly.

I am completely available if I can do anything else, please help me that my partner can't take it anymore to see me struggling on this computer...
Eagle Dynamics please save this relationship!!! X'D

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Match
better explain