Trim button?

[Spirale]

Hello all,

I bought the Apache yesterday and i can not find the "trim button" or the " Force trim button". Trim fonction are assigned to my pov ( up, don, left and right) but...no Trim button on the key bind.

Could you advise please?

Thx a lot

[Belphe]

The Apache does not have a true trim system known from other helicopters in DCS, e.g. Ka-50. Instead, it's using a stabilisation system that possesses some degree of authority over the controls when enabled. It can be temporarily overridden to allow manoeuvring and kicks back in when released. For more information I suggest reading through the Official Manual, Chuck's Guide for the Apache and/or watching videos on YouTube.

[Spirale]

Thx a lot for your reply , i read old topic about the trim functions ( for example the altitude hold which act like a trim if i am not wrong?). So now there is no trim button?

I will read the manual and chuck guide yes, this is scheduled ^^

[Belphe]

Altitude and Attitude are HOLD modes but they are "passive" (as they don't "fly" the aircraft for you when enabled) and their narrow authority won't e.g. transition a travelling aircraft into a hover - you need to do that manually. Only when in a near-hover state (I believe it's speeds < 5kts) will enabling the Attitude Hold put the aircraft in a controlled hover. I strongly recommend you learn more about these systems as they behave differently depending on your speed and altitude. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Belphe

[Spirale]

Thx Belphe

I have binded the "release switch", att , alt, up and down functions and the cancel trim

[Yurgon]

11 hours ago, Spirale said:

I bought the Apache yesterday and i can not find the "trim button" or the " Force trim button".

The Apache uses a 4-way-switch for the trim functions. The position that does essentially the same that "Trim Control" does in the Ka-50 is:

Force Trim/Hold Mode Switch - R/Up

With this, you can fly the Apache just fine.

When you get into longer flights and gain more experience, the altitude and attitude hold modes will come in handy, but for starters the R/Up position is all that's needed.

10 hours ago, Belphe said:

The Apache does not have a true trim system known from other helicopters in DCS, e.g. Ka-50.

It doesn't? I beg to differ, it does. Sure, there are differences in the way force trim is implemented between the Apache and the Ka-50, but on a broad scale they work almost exactly the same: Hold trim, change attitude, release trim. Or, do not hold trim, change attitude, let go of the cyclic and the chopper should get right back to the previously trimmed attitude. I'm not sure how that doesn't count as a "true" trim system.

[Spirale]

Thx Yurgon

Testerday i trained a bit with R/Up= it is fine now (thx again for the advise before).

I have a question about the " Release trim switch". When i press it my Apache goes crazy without any imput. I didn't find anything about this behavior .

What it is intented to do exactly? It seems to be the same as " Cancel trim button".

[Floyd1212]

It sounds like you are referring to the Trim RESET function.  Is this the one that is causing your aircraft to go crazy?

[Spirale]

Yes the Trim Reset button

[Floyd1212]

That function doesn't exist in the real aircraft, just in the DCS sim environment.  It can be used to instantly reset the trim back to "0" on the cyclic axis and pedal axis, so make sure you are prepared for it, and get your controls to the position where they should be for the current attitude of the aircraft.

[shagrat]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Spirale:

Thx Yurgon

Testerday i trained a bit with R/Up= it is fine now (thx again for the advise before).

I have a question about the " Release trim switch". When i press it my Apache goes crazy without any imput. I didn't find anything about this behavior .

What it is intented to do exactly? It seems to be the same as " Cancel trim button".

Also check out the trimmer modes in the module specific settings! Instant trim does exactly this. Your current cyclic position instantly is the new center position and the current input is added on top. With central trimmer mode you need to center the stick briefly, before new inputs get recognized after trim.

Also keep in mind, the force trim release button (R/Up) works by allowing you to freely move the stick, while it is pressed. Only when you release the button, the trim happens.

[Spirale]

Thx a lot Shagrat , i'll have a try in today

I own several modules ( all F'x, Mirages, Viggen, A10) and i've discovered the Apache: a wonder, a complex wonder but this is why it appels me.

[martinistripes]

If I'm using a stick with dampers and no springs, do I still need to Trim (R/Up)? Or is it negated by the fact there's no tension trying to return my stick to centre?

[admiki]

Again? Yes, you do need to use trim button.

 

[UncleStains]

Yes, you definitely still need to trim when using a clutched springless cyclic. If you turn on the control indicator window, on the cyclic axes you'll see a red X (trim position), white diamond (physical stick position), and a green cross (SCAS system output). The SCAS system takes the positions of the red X and white diamond, does some math, and outputs the green cross. The closer together the red X and the white diamond are, the better the system works.

I find it works best if you hold the trim release up when doing large maneuvers. This locks the red X to the white diamond, guaranteeing full SCAS authority. Once you're settled in cruise or hover, periodically tap the trim release up as you are making small attitude corrections to keep that offset minimized.

[martinistripes]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:05 PM, UncleStains said:

Yes, you definitely still need to trim when using a clutched springless cyclic. If you turn on the control indicator window, on the cyclic axes you'll see a red X (trim position), white diamond (physical stick position), and a green cross (SCAS system output). The SCAS system takes the positions of the red X and white diamond, does some math, and outputs the green cross. The closer together the red X and the white diamond are, the better the system works.

I find it works best if you hold the trim release up when doing large maneuvers. This locks the red X to the white diamond, guaranteeing full SCAS authority. Once you're settled in cruise or hover, periodically tap the trim release up as you are making small attitude corrections to keep that offset minimized.

Thanks for the explanation.