cannot repoduce and missing track file Cumbersome Ground Radar Behavior

[RPY Variable]

1) Right now when you are in GM mode with DBS2, and you want to get a closer look clicking the OSB button of the range, the radar just resets itself.
I don't have a real F-16 to test on my own, but the behavior we have right now is cumbersome, hard to believe it like that on the real aircraft. If you want to take a close look at something at 15 miles you need to firs put the radar on the 10 mile distance after that you are just blind, because you can't see the cursor. Forget about doing it at 23 nm.
This video show the old behavior which is much more logical. You go with the cursor to a zone, DBS1->DBS2 and then zoom with the USB buttons. Is this behavior ever going to come back?

Before (good in my opinion)

Now:
https://streamable.com/ncz1ru

2) Mark point whit radar. When you are in DBS mode and click on MRK (7) the radar just resets itself. So if you find something and want to do a mark point, you need to find it twice.
And also, you cant make multiple mark points with DBS mode, It just reset's itself every mark point. Shouldn't I be able to do multiple mark points without needing to find the target again and again.
https://streamable.com/zlt59h

3) FZ screen... it resets itself to a black screen by multiple different reasons. One of them being turning the aircraft away from the point... shouldn't the image be "store", so I amble to use it while cold from the target. What's the logic behind freezing if I then need to maintain radar angle with that point. Is just not useful. Other reason is again, doing a markpoit, why can I just do 2 or more mark points on the same freeze radar image like in the F-15E. It just doesn't make sense.
https://streamable.com/orjres

Edited June 22, 2023 by RPY Variable

[Rhinozherous]

You have to provide a track. 

[RPY Variable]

I added a video link for each of the points.

[_SteelFalcon_]

2 hours ago, RPY Variable said:

I added a video link for each of the points.

Nice, however if you dont‘t provide a track replay from those situations, so ED can easily open the track to reproduce this, it might not be looked at.

you can save the track replay after flying if you click „save track replay“ on the debrief screen.

[RPY Variable]

I remember I made a similar post SIMILAR, not same (please do not close this one by implying that it is the same as the other) almost one year ago, still no solution.
The only reason I insist on this is because it's really unusable like this. It's a pain every time you try to use the ground radar, and with limited functionality. It's like having a ground radar but not having it at the same time.

 

[RPY Variable]

In the 3) case where you lose the freeze image... the F-15E has an "auto freze" function (with a freeze that works), that freezes the DBS image when you are outside gimbal limits, which is logical behavior.

On the F16 it just leaves you with a black image despite already being in freeze mode.
https://streamable.com/orjres?t=15

 

[Lord Vader]

Hi @RPY Variable

We require a track to figure out what's possibly wrong or what are you doing that may or may not be incorrect.

The current implementation of the EXP modes for the ground radar has been created according to available documentation.
If you have any public available sources that shows our interpretation is not correct, please supply it via PM to @BIGNEWY.

 

[RPY Variable]

Let me clarify, this is not a bug report. This is simply a post with the objective of showing a behavior that I am sure other people have already noticed, make some comparisons and I was interested in hearing the opinion of others if anyone was interested..

it's just a post to discuss a certain aspect of the DCS f16.

[RPY Variable]

I made the bug report for the 3). Someone just needs to freeze a the GM screen on the FCR and turn away. I spent the unnecessary time to look for a manual to check the obvious.

Edited June 24, 2023 by RPY Variable

[SickSidewinder9]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:42 AM, Lord Vader said:

Hi @RPY Variable

We require a track to figure out what's possibly wrong or what are you doing that may or may not be incorrect.

The current implementation of the EXP modes for the ground radar has been created according to available documentation.
If you have any public available sources that shows our interpretation is not correct, please supply it via PM to @BIGNEWY.

 

Did you at least watch the video?

Because yeah, the way it works now is very hard to use.  I'd say logic would dictate it doesn't work that, but this is the US Military.

But yeah, freeze is freeze.  Freeze the image.

Just insisting on a track and washing your hands is lazy.  You can see stuff in the video.

[SickSidewinder9]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:12 AM, RPY Variable said:

1) Right now when you are in GM mode with DBS2, and you want to get a closer look clicking the OSB button of the range, the radar just resets itself.
I don't have a real F-16 to test on my own, but the behavior we have right now is cumbersome, hard to believe it like that on the real aircraft. If you want to take a close look at something at 15 miles you need to firs put the radar on the 10 mile distance after that you are just blind, because you can't see the cursor. Forget about doing it at 23 nm.
This video show the old behavior which is much more logical. You go with the cursor to a zone, DBS1->DBS2 and then zoom with the USB buttons. Is this behavior ever going to come back?

Before (good in my opinion)

Now:
https://streamable.com/ncz1ru

2) Mark point whit radar. When you are in DBS mode and click on MRK (7) the radar just resets itself. So if you find something and want to do a mark point, you need to find it twice.
And also, you cant make multiple mark points with DBS mode, It just reset's itself every mark point. Shouldn't I be able to do multiple mark points without needing to find the target again and again.
https://streamable.com/zlt59h

3) FZ screen... it resets itself to a black screen by multiple different reasons. One of them being turning the aircraft away from the point... shouldn't the image be "store", so I amble to use it while cold from the target. What's the logic behind freezing if I then need to maintain radar angle with that point. Is just not useful. Other reason is again, doing a markpoit, why can I just do 2 or more mark points on the same freeze radar image like in the F-15E. It just doesn't make sense.
https://streamable.com/orjres

 

In the first video, it looks like you didn't TMS up for a target track before selecting mark, so it went back to the HUD as SOI.  Whether or not this is the correct logic, who knows, but Mark mode didn't have a SPI to use, so for all we know, this is the correct logic.

 

The other stuff is definitely a hassle though.  I just go to 10 as the range for max zoom.  TBH, I don't use map targeting much.  I'll have to try more.  Maybe it would be more useful if some of the behavior you described didn't happen.

Edit: sorry, second video.  I wonder if setting a SPI is also the answer to the problem in the first?  I have to try later.

Edited July 14, 2023 by SickSidewinder9

[NineLine]

20 hours ago, SickSidewinder9 said:

Just insisting on a track and washing your hands is lazy. 

I am sorry you are having trouble, but the best way to ensure we are seeing exactly what you are is with a track. A video does not show us inputs etc.

Also, I get you are frustrated, but please try to be kind in your responses. 

Our Team juggles many support requests and bug reports, making a track is the quickest and easiest way to get something looked at, and required here.

Thanks. 

[SickSidewinder9]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:43 PM, NineLine said:

I am sorry you are having trouble, but the best way to ensure we are seeing exactly what you are is with a track. A video does not show us inputs etc.

Also, I get you are frustrated, but please try to be kind in your responses. 

Our Team juggles many support requests and bug reports, making a track is the quickest and easiest way to get something looked at, and required here.

Thanks. 

You can literally see what he's doing wrong in one of the videos.  And if freeze unfreezes, it's irrelevant what buttons he's pushing other than freeze.

[candle eatist]

I've had this issue too, and please, just give the nice man the track file, it only takes maybe 10 minutes. 

[howie87]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:12 AM, RPY Variable said:

This video show the old behavior which is much more logical. You go with the cursor to a zone, DBS1->DBS2 and then zoom with the USB buttons. Is this behavior ever going to come back?

I think this old behaviour is incorrect, as the EXP/DBS1/DBS2 are basically cropped/enhanced views of the current GM radar image (which covers 10,20 or 40nm etc).

In this old video, the radar range is set to 40nm and then Wags zooms to DBS2 over a target point 25nm away. If you then changed the radar range to 10nm you wouldn't see anything, as the target is beyond that range.

The example in your video illustrates this. The radar cannot resolve a target 25nm away at the 20nm/10nm scale, so it reverts to norm and does a sweep at the requested scale.

Whether this is the correct behaviour, or if you should just see a blank image instead of the radar resetting, I do not know.

As for the mark points/freeze issues. These do look like bugs. Can't see any reason the freeze image should disappear when the target is outside of the radar gimbal limits, or when creating mark points.

Edited July 16, 2023 by howie87

[RPY Variable]

14 hours ago, SickSidewinder9 said:

You can literally see what he's doing wrong in one of the videos.  And if freeze unfreezes, it's irrelevant what buttons he's pushing other than freeze.

Sometimes it feels like the DMV... "The form must be filled in blue ink"

[Sirclippliers]

Ive got similar issues so I am following this with interest. Did we get anywhere, was there any hints and tips?

[Tenkom]

As a workaround you can just double(triple?) press the expand button after you have changed the range to get back to DBS2.

The cursor doesn't move even if you can't see it because it is outside 10NM.