already reported Sniper BTR80/82's ??

[Phantom_Mark]

I only call out the BTR as it highlights itself so much to me at least.

I was just goofing around last night with the F15E doing some mud plugging practice, took some hits from the BTR's, as I always seem to take, but for a change I thought I would see just how good they are.

Slammed it to the desk from a few miles out, burners lit, 630kn or so across the ground towards a bunch of BTR's arranged in a huddle, it was little surprise to take hits, but as I overflew they were easily leading accurate shots even at this crazy speed.

Now, I have never flown at 100ft across the top of a dozen BTR's at 600+ knots to qualify if that feels ok or not, but in my gut it feels a little strong ?

Is there a specific reason why the BTR's always seem more "snipery" than some other units ?

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

Because it’s a computer program, not a BTR.  It knows exactly where you are and where you will be when…

[peachmonkey]

now imagine how ridiculous it is to do AG missions in a WWII bird. The ground aimbot of ANY asset with a gun (including infantry) is such a downer it spoils basic enjoyment of this simulator.

[BIGNEWY]

Check the skill level of the unit, or attach a track replay. 

If the unit is on a high skill level and you are flying in a straight line I wouldn't expect any other result. 

 

[Phantom_Mark]

Just on "average" , I overflew and turned out and they lead that with little issue, just seems at the closure rate and speed involved in this example it feels a little raw?

Not worth a big deal about it, merely an observation rather than a moan tbh, as such I don't even consider this a bug - moreover something that  "just is" ?

Do we know if there is anything in the pipelines for the AI ground logic in the future ? in general I mean, was nice to see the updates for the AI planes, be nice to see something along those lines for the ground units as well ?

Edited July 5, 2023 by Phantom_Mark

[RedeyeStorm]

Try the same with T-72’s with the 12.7 mm turret guns. Fair change you get shot down.

[Phantom_Mark]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:15 PM, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

Because it’s a computer program, not a BTR.  It knows exactly where you are and where you will be when…

Which is why us clever game developers create AI code to mimic real behaviours, to try and suspend you in the belief you are in a real living, breathing, world.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Phantom_Mark

[shagrat]

Am 5.7.2023 um 16:07 schrieb BIGNEWY:

Check the skill level of the unit, or attach a track replay. 

If the unit is on a high skill level and you are flying in a straight line I wouldn't expect any other result. 

 

As having had anti-air defensive training in the army I definitely would expect them to miss no matter what skill setting (!), or even more realistic only take shots on approaching aircraft. This is hammered into your head during training, as trying to lead a fast moving aircraft flying away(!) from you is basically a waste of ammunition. A ZSU-23-4 with its radar can calculate lead in realtime, but not a human gunner eyeballing the target, laser rangefinder or not.

The concept of defensive Anti-Air (Fliegerabwehr) is trying to deny the airspace in the direction of a target by putting as much tracers/bullets in the air in front of the aircraft as possible to scare the pilot into maneuvering, failing the approach. If you hit the aircraft it is more by luck than any skill involved (talking about a jet at 500 kts, not a slow moving helicopter).

In real life the ground forces will only fire at an aircraft flying towards(!!!) their position and stop firing, when it passes the 3/9 line of the gunner.

Air defense against jets is what SHORAD like Roland or Gepard were designed for. 

Autocannons against slow or hovering helicopters is fine, heck, even Tank crews train snap shots against helicopters with the main gun in the simulator, but not against fast movers, as it would be waste of precious ammo.

This is a long standing issue with the AI. It's a constant gripe, since DCS: A-10C Warthog days, that BMPs especially, but also BTR, MBT with Anti-Air MG hit jets perfectly at their max engagement range, making them a bigger threat than dedicated AAA. It's not just a simple skill setting issue.

I would love to see the AI no longer shoot jets with a DSHK after it already passed overhead and with a perfectly timed lead in 3 dimensions adjusted for 500 KTS snipe it out of the sky.

 

[MBot]

9 hours ago, shagrat said:

As having had anti-air defensive training in the army I definitely would expect them to miss no matter what skill setting (!), or even more realistic only take shots on approaching aircraft. This is hammered into your head during training, as trying to lead a fast moving aircraft flying away(!) from you is basically a waste of ammunition. A ZSU-23-4 with its radar can calculate lead in realtime, but not a human gunner eyeballing the target, laser rangefinder or not.

The concept of defensive Anti-Air (Fliegerabwehr) is trying to deny the airspace in the direction of a target by putting as much tracers/bullets in the air in front of the aircraft as possible to scare the pilot into maneuvering, failing the approach. If you hit the aircraft it is more by luck than any skill involved (talking about a jet at 500 kts, not a slow moving helicopter).

In real life the ground forces will only fire at an aircraft flying towards(!!!) their position and stop firing, when it passes the 3/9 line of the gunner.

Air defense against jets is what SHORAD like Roland or Gepard were designed for. 

Autocannons against slow or hovering helicopters is fine, heck, even Tank crews train snap shots against helicopters with the main gun in the simulator, but not against fast movers, as it would be waste of precious ammo.

This is a long standing issue with the AI. It's a constant gripe, since DCS: A-10C Warthog days, that BMPs especially, but also BTR, MBT with Anti-Air MG hit jets perfectly at their max engagement range, making them a bigger threat than dedicated AAA. It's not just a simple skill setting issue.

I would love to see the AI no longer shoot jets with a DSHK after it already passed overhead and with a perfectly timed lead in 3 dimensions adjusted for 500 KTS snipe it out of the sky.

 

Good post. In the US Army this firing technique is apparently called Volume Fire.

 Check out the date of the post

[shagrat]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb MBot:

Good post. In the US Army this firing technique is apparently called Volume Fire.

 Check out the date of the post

(...)" If the jet is crossing, use a lead of 200 meters (two football fields) and fire--letting the jet fly through the cone of fire from the machine guns. Do not try to track or traverse your fire with the jet--it flies too fast."(...)

Sums it up pretty well.

[NineLine]

This is already reported for some time, I will keep applying pressure. Until then there are some options to stop certain units from engaging air units that helps for now. Thanks.