reported Engine overheating?

[Art-J]

Does anyone have an original German flight manual for this A/C and knows the language well enough to figure out what it recommends? I haven't been lucky in finding it.

In my experience DCS manuals contradicting themselves a bit (or being confusing) are not unheard of, so It would be interesting to take a peek at a primary source material.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Art-J

[NineLine]

Mystery solved...

[okopanja]

Is there a hot key for this damage window?

[NineLine]

Just now, okopanja said:

Is there a hot key for this damage window?

No, its a dev window only but it shows in the briefing as I showed here. 

[Doughguy]

What does this mean?

I cant recall but iirc i wasnt in combat in the 2nd sortie when the engine died? Is this the 2nd track?

So random failure?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Doughguy

[NineLine]

To make them easier to find you can sort by failure as well.

1 minute ago, Doughguy said:

What does this mean?

 

It means you took a shot to the cooling system, you could even see some steam coming out. 

[Doughguy]

Wait was this with the engagement with the B17? That wasnt what i meant. It occured on the last few mins of the track on my 2nd sortie of said track.

Quote

It means you took a shot to the cooling system, you could even see some steam coming out. 

This mustve been during the attack on the b17 when i was jumped by a spitfire iirc, but that wasnt the mystery. on the same mission i took off again and then the engine quit. hence i said about last 10 mins of the track.

 

i hope that track plays it correctly

Edited November 2, 2023 by Doughguy

[NineLine]

Moments later your coolant gauge was starting to drop, why when it is overheating? Because you were losing coolant, as it gets lower it failed to register on the sensor. The only thing I am not sure about is your oil temp started to drop. I am not sure why that is, I'll have to ask. 

2 minutes ago, Doughguy said:

Wait was this with the engagement with the B17? That wasnt what i meant. It occured on the last few mins of the track on my 2nd sortie of said track.

Ohhh, I'll keep watching then. I didnt realize there was a second flight. 

[Doughguy]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

Ohhh, I'll keep watching then. I didnt realize there was a second flight. 

No worries... my english isnt the "yellow from the egg" as we say here. Yea the engine dies again on the 2nd sortie again but this time w/o taking damage.
I could see coolant escaping but again, just as on the first sortie i was climbing and flying with about same parameters.

[Hobel]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Doughguy:

No worries... my english isnt the "yellow from the egg" as we say here. Yea the engine dies again on the 2nd sortie again but this time w/o taking damage.
I could see coolant escaping but again, just as on the first sortie i was climbing and flying with about same parameters.

To come back to this directly, I will start another test series with all the parameters.   The last time was a few weeks ago but I couldn't observe any such behavior

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, Hobel said:

To come back to this directly, I will start another test series with all the parameters.   The last time was a few weeks ago but I couldn't observe any such behavior

I hope its not the mystery Dora engine bug back, I flew the Dora for many MANY hours to try and get a track. 

[Doughguy]

Id also like to rule this out. Please see my first track also.

Im not sure if i messed up engine warm up, but if youve watched the track i dont t/o with her below 70deg.

[peachmonkey]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

No, its a dev window only but it shows in the briefing as I showed here. 

hi, @NineLine, it would be amazing to get this damage report in Multi Player. Right now the only way to assess the damage after landing is to look inside the log file, however it's pretty clunky.

Can you possibly submit a request to dev's to implement an SP like briefing but for the multi-player, specifically for the "failure" part?  I love flying multiple sorties in A8 for A2G action, and see how many sorties it will last with all the damage I receive from the ground fire...

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, Doughguy said:

Id also like to rule this out. Please see my first track also.

Im not sure if i messed up engine warm up, but if youve watched the track i dont t/o with her below 70deg.

I really didn't see a good reason why it failed, I will submit it to the team, I also made a video of the event not that I could see much. Thanks for the report and the patience. 

[Doughguy]

Thanks alot.

Was the startup procedure regarding temps ok? That was my suspicion as a primary culprit.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Doughguy said:

Thanks alot.

Was the startup procedure regarding temps ok? That was my suspicion as a primary culprit.

Yeah I think it was fine, your coolant might have been a little low but was fine before you got on the runway, I cant see that being the issue but I have submitted the track and will try and reproduce on my own in singleplayer. 

[NineLine]

One thing I could, should, recommend as well that when you are pushing the Dora as hard as you were that you could consider manually opening the rad flaps a little. It doesn't take a lot to cool the oil down some. I think this would help as well. If you really need some speed and you are worried they are giving you too much drag, close them up until you can spare the cooling again. 

I would suggest playing with this offline if you are not familiar with it. Somewhere where you can pop your head out and look at the flaps with F2 (don't do it with active pause they get glitchy)

The Dora has an automated system, and in MOST cases will keep up. The pilot Yo-Yo talked to I believe stated he never touched them, but we tend to push our virtual planes harder than the real guys. As an example, in much of your track you were 120 or above on oil, you could give yourself and your plane a little bit of a breather by letting some air in there. 

Again, not saying this played into the 2nd failure, but its just an observation from your track and my own flights tonight refreshing myself in the lovely Dora. 

[Doughguy]

Cheers for the advice.

I try to cruise way below 3000 rpm as shes quite a guzzler. Same during fights.  After the last few incidents i was watching the temps more frequently and they all were inside the indicated bracket so i gathered its the operating norm. Hence i also do not operate the cowlflaps. She cools pretty good ln her own. Ill try to play around more with the cowlflaps but its tricky to get them back into the "neutral" pos. Closing them nearly completally or anything below the automated pos gets the engine cooked pretty fast tho, at least no time i could justify few kph more to trade for like 30 seconds.

 But speaking of rpms and manuals. As 3250 is climbing power it should be save to use that rpm for start and climb up to 6km alt w/o any probs providing shes been warmed up correctly and one isnt flying a high climbrate /low speed respectively, correct?

Or would you recommend this only during combat /after t/o only?

The manual says 3250 for t/o but then retard throtzle to 3000 once save speed/alt has been reached, whereas engine settings say 3250 is climbing power.

Bit confusing.

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Doughguy:

Cheers for the advice.

I try to cruise way below 3000 rpm as shes quite a guzzler. Same during fights.  After the last few incidents i was watching the temps more frequently and they all were inside the indicated bracket so i gathered its the operating norm. Hence i also do not operate the cowlflaps. She cools pretty good ln her own. Ill try to play around more with the cowlflaps but its tricky to get them back into the "neutral" pos. Closing them nearly completally or anything below the automated pos gets the engine cooked pretty fast tho, at least no time i could justify few kph more to trade for like 30 seconds.

 But speaking of rpms and manuals. As 3250 is climbing power it should be save to use that rpm for start and climb up to 6km alt w/o any probs providing shes been warmed up correctly and one isnt flying a high climbrate /low speed respectively, correct?

Or would you recommend this only during combat /after t/o only?

The manual says 3250 for t/o but then retard throtzle to 3000 once save speed/alt has been reached, whereas engine settings say 3250 is climbing power.

Bit confusing.

After  tests the D9 can handle 3250 RPM very well and I was able to climb to 7500 at 280km/h without any temp problems.
It can also run 3250RPM as stated in the manual for 30min under 7500m without any problems.
There were no problems in lvl flight either, I did over 10 runs of both situations
for now

all tested without MW50

 

@NineLine can  you take a look at this track, the track lasts about 3 minutes.
I don't want to say that anything is wrong, I've also done some pretty nasty things here and the temp display near the limit.

nevertheless, i didn't manage to destroy the eninge with the parameters again within 3 minutes.
can you use the dev tool to see the exact temps at the moment the enigne dies?
D9 Engine Dead 1 .trk

 

 

 

And this is a very interesting one this is an Airstart and the engine explodes after 20sec
Without MW50 for all other tests, I was otherwise able to climb to 7500m without any problemsInstant engine dead after one minute.trk

Of course, it could also be that the temp was not yet in the right range and that's why the engine Died  so quickly?




These are the only two things I have noticed so far and they have happened in rather unusual situations.
but it might be worth a look to rule out possible problems

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Hobel

[NineLine]

7 hours ago, Hobel said:

After  tests the D9 can handle 3250 RPM very well and I was able to climb to 7500 at 280km/h without any temp problems.
It can also run 3250RPM as stated in the manual for 30min under 7500m without any problems.
There were no problems in lvl flight either, I did over 10 runs of both situations
for now

all tested without MW50

 

@NineLine can  you take a look at this track, the track lasts about 3 minutes.
I don't want to say that anything is wrong, I've also done some pretty nasty things here and the temp display near the limit.

nevertheless, i didn't manage to destroy the eninge with the parameters again within 3 minutes.
can you use the dev tool to see the exact temps at the moment the enigne dies?
D9 Engine Dead 1 .trk

 

 

 

And this is a very interesting one this is an Airstart and the engine explodes after 20sec
Without MW50 for all other tests, I was otherwise able to climb to 7500m without any problemsInstant engine dead after one minute.trk

Of course, it could also be that the temp was not yet in the right range and that's why the engine Died  so quickly?




These are the only two things I have noticed so far and they have happened in rather unusual situations.
but it might be worth a look to rule out possible problems

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, happy to take a look soon. Thanks

 

11 hours ago, Doughguy said:

 But speaking of rpms and manuals. As 3250 is climbing power it should be save to use that rpm for start and climb up to 6km alt w/o any probs providing shes been warmed up correctly and one isnt flying a high climbrate /low speed respectively, correct?

Or would you recommend this only during combat /after t/o only?

The manual says 3250 for t/o but then retard throtzle to 3000 once save speed/alt has been reached, whereas engine settings say 3250 is climbing power.

3250 is ok for climb at anytime, but mostly for T/O. 3000 is max continuous below 7500m and 3250 above, of course in an emergency when you really need to you can use it, but not over long periods, and if you watch your temps and give the engine some more air when needed I think you can get away with a lot. Realize when you operate on the top end or outside recommended limits the automated system may not keep up the way it should, so manual option may be needed. As I said, much of the time your oil was above 110, maybe when you are just cruising or climbing and not in a fight, working on keeping that cooler will help preserve the engine for a fight. 

[NineLine]

9 hours ago, Hobel said:

nevertheless, i didn't manage to destroy the eninge with the parameters again within 3 minutes.
can you use the dev tool to see the exact temps at the moment the enigne dies?
D9 Engine Dead 1 .trk

In this track you are simply operating the MW50 system in a way it shouldn't be. The MW50 System is not used for a steep slow climb, you need to be able to keep the engine cool enough to support what is happening in the engine. Flying under 280-290 (even then its risky) will most likely end like your track did. 

MW50 is more about combat or getting away from combat, you can use it for short climbs but you need to start in an engine state that is cool enough to not risk overheating. 

 

9 hours ago, Hobel said:

And this is a very interesting one this is an Airstart and the engine explodes after 20sec
Without MW50 for all other tests, I was otherwise able to climb to 7500m without any problemsInstant engine dead after one minute.trk

I think this is simply a DCS glitch. Starting back with DM testing I was always told to wait a good 20 seconds before testing, in this case, you jumped right in and fast-forwarded right away. If you ever watched a DCS module on load you can see the gauges are not in the right location and take a moment to update. Always wait a bit before getting into it. 

For testing purposes try and avoid fast forward or active pause (during a live flight, when watching a track back its ok except for possible track playback errors). The sim doesn't always understand these states during a live flight, in fact, the top track would fail most times if I took over after or during your fast forward. If I flew clean, no speed changes it was fine. See this track:

Dora Engine Didnt die.trk

[Doughguy]

Had another siezure just now. will post track later.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Doughguy said:

Had another siezure just now. will post track later.

Thanks, we will see if we can figure out if its an error or a bug one way or another but I have reported your mystery one already.

[Yo-Yo]

Generally, one must not fly Fw-190 under 290 kph during climb whatever power is used, because at this IAS +- it has the best climb rate. If you use WEP (in any aircraft) the best climb speed can be increased up to 20 kph to maintain coolant (cylinder heads/oil) temperature. Or more for tropic conditions.

[MAD-MM]

And the next one...short before the 4:39 ingame time. To this Point was traveling most of time between 2600 RPM and 3000RPM.

PS Note there was no MW50 on this server, File is to big for the Forum

 

https://www.file-upload.net/download-15237371/09._18_JULY_1944_N2_v5.3.2-20231211-195701.trk.html