need track replay A real pilots impressions of the AH-64D Apache for DCS

[yokibagam]

I wanted to share this article from a real apache pilot and instructor. I've always thought and said that the flight model was absurd and very out of touch with reality compared to all the other modules, clearly a lot of people in here don't see a problem with it and it seems like normal behavior to them. I quote a passage from what this former pilot says about the flight pattern:

"When I first tried this model, I found it almost impossible to fly.

It rolled over almost immediately shredding the rotor blades. This was the day after a flight in a real Apache, so I'm certain I didn't forget how to fly them in the 18 hours or so between real flight and sim”

Yes , a bit of a "rant" post, but I want to tell all the people wondering what they are doing wrong that the answer is "nothing" because the flight model must be largely correct.

[Feller-Buncher]

Where is this article you speak off?

I can imagine if this real pilot has a <profanity>ty HOTAS, and did nothing with setting curves, that flying a real Apache can be so different that he fails in the sim.

Little more background to the quotes is helpful. 

[Rudel_chw]

18 minutes ago, yokibagam said:

Yes , a bit of a "rant" post

yes … complete, with a just-created user account instead of ranting from your normal account. Nice. 

[Lace]

The difference between real flying, and simulator flying (not specifically the AH-64), is that real pilots rely on many stimuli which are absent from a computer sim.  Things like control forces, almost imperceptible seat-of-the-pants g-forces, vibrations, external cues, etc, which even the best VR setup is missing.  Simulators are very good for practicing certain scenarios, workflows, procedures, etc, but not great for relaying the actual process of controlling an aircraft.

A real pilot will have an almost instinctive ability to manipulate the controls almost subconsciously based on many hours and reps.  These movements will not necessarily translate directly into the game 1:1, depending on a number of factors, like input device location, stick forces, travel or curves.  Combined with the lack of feedback cues above, and the reliance on the image on the screen, then no wonder they will end up behind the curve and potentially lose control of the aircraft.

This doesn't mean the flight model is wrong, or that they would be unable to master the module with a few hours of practice, it is just that no matter how much some users try to convince themselves, flying a game, is not the same as flying an aircraft.  They are two different, but related skills, each of which take practice.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Lace

[Silver_Dragon]

Casmo and others was not AH-64 Apache pilots?

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

34 minutes ago, yokibagam said:

I wanted to share this article from a real apache pilot and instructor. I've always thought and said that the flight model was absurd and very out of touch with reality compared to all the other modules, clearly a lot of people in here don't see a problem with it and it seems like normal behavior to them. I quote a passage from what this former pilot says about the flight pattern:

"When I first tried this model, I found it almost impossible to fly.

It rolled over almost immediately shredding the rotor blades. This was the day after a flight in a real Apache, so I'm certain I didn't forget how to fly them in the 18 hours or so between real flight and sim”

Yes , a bit of a "rant" post, but I want to tell all the people wondering what they are doing wrong that the answer is "nothing" because the flight model must be largely correct.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum. 

We also have Apache pilots helping us with development, and their feedback has helped us a lot with the flight model. We still have some tweaks to come in early access, however I would suggest if you want to actually post a bug report you give us way more detail. 

We will need a short track replay of the tests being carried out. 

What hardware is being used, stick and throttle, and special option settings for the AH-64D in DCS. 

 

We often get people querying flight models without any data or evidence, also flying in a sim is very different than real life, you have no physical feedback of forces and it can be difficult for real pilots to adjust. 

If you do think there is a problem you will need to show a track replay flying by the numbers, if there is an issue we are happy to look into it. 

If the real pilot wants to reach out to me please ask them to, so there is no middle man confusion. 

thank you

[Feller-Buncher]

Well, doing a google on the quotes leads to this article.

https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/real-pilot-impressions-ah-64d-apache-dcs

That is a year old, so completely irrelevant today.

Plus, reading on beyond "When I first tried this model, I found it almost impossible to fly."
He continues, "So, I started working with some curves. I set all of my primary control axes to 25% at first. This brought the handling at a hover closer to what I would expect,"

So what about the FM today? He never seems to have revisited the DCS AH-64D, and mostly focus on X-Plane and MSFS.
For real ongoing review of a real Apache driver, look at Casmo's channel for exhample https://www.youtube.com/@CasmoTV

[yokibagam]

5 hours ago, yokibagam said:

I wanted to share this article from a real apache pilot and instructor. I've always thought and said that the flight model was absurd and very out of touch with reality compared to all the other modules, clearly a lot of people in here don't see a problem with it and it seems like normal behavior to them. I quote a passage from what this former pilot says about the flight pattern:  https://mobdro.bio/ 

"When I first tried this model, I found it almost impossible to fly.

It rolled over almost immediately shredding the rotor blades. This was the day after a flight in a real Apache, so I'm certain I didn't forget how to fly them in the 18 hours or so between real flight and sim”

Yes , a bit of a "rant" post, but I want to tell all the people wondering what they are doing wrong that the answer is "nothing" because the flight model must be largely correct.

 

i got this...

[NineLine]

Just for transparency and not to seem like we are removing a post because its negative towards us, the OP has a total of 4 accounts, the extra 3 will be banned and the original account warned. This is clearly stated in our rules.

We have very dedicated people working on the AH-64, and while it might not be perfect yet, when we are done it will be easily the best representation of the AH-64D you can fly on your PC. 

Thanks all, and sorry about the drama. Any questions on this, feel free to PM me.