resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[SharpeXB]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:52 AM, TheFreshPrince said:

In this picture, there is an enemy fighter jet at only 2 miles distance, good luck finding it:

Compressed still screenshots don’t illustrate this issue very accurately. In real gameplay the image quality is better and the target is moving. An aircraft at this distance is usually quite easy to see depending on color and aspect etc. If it’s camouflaged against terrain then the camouflage is functioning as intended. 

Edited December 16, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Compressed still screenshots don’t illustrate this issue very accurately.

So don't use a lossy format. Simple.

[speed-of-heat]

did spotting dots get changed in the last update? I don't find then in any way effective now?

[TheFreshPrince]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

Compressed still screenshots don’t illustrate this issue very accurately. In real gameplay the image quality is better and the target is moving. An aircraft at this distance is usually quite easy to see depending on color and aspect etc. If it’s camouflaged against terrain then the camouflage is functioning as intended. 

I exported this frame out of an uncompressed video, so it's pretty much the same as I saw it on my screen. I just cropped it slightly. I didn't see the fighter jet in game at all, although it was right in front of me at only 2 miles distance. That's why I'm posting it here. I dunno what happened in the last months, but the visibility is really bad (I have spotting dots turned off).

Here is the enemy jet:

 

[SharpeXB]

35 minutes ago, TheFreshPrince said:

I exported this frame out of an uncompressed video, so it's pretty much the same as I saw it on my screen. I just cropped it slightly. I didn't see the fighter jet in game at all, although it was right in front of me at only 2 miles distance. That's why I'm posting it here. I dunno what happened in the last months, but the visibility is really bad (I have spotting dots turned off).

Here is the enemy jet:

 

That aircraft would be super easy to see in the real game since it’s moving. Also it’s too large for a spotting dot to help with unless the dot was a giant cube covering the whole plane. A spotting dot of just a pixel or so in size would be smaller than the 3D model at this range. I don’t understand why you say you didn’t see this. It’s totally visible in your screenshot. In a still image it looks like a tree though.

Edited December 16, 2024 by SharpeXB

[TheFreshPrince]

Yeah, it is if you are already looking exactly at it. I don't want a spotting dot, I hate those things. I would like it to be rendered as closely to what I would see in real life. Do those pixels look anything like that? You say it's super easy to see, but couldn't spot it in a still image. If I had taken a picture in real life in this situation, wouldn't you be able to see it? Why are the pixels only black, why is it so small compared to the trees, etc.

Edited December 16, 2024 by TheFreshPrince

[draconus]

16 minutes ago, TheFreshPrince said:

If I had taken a picture in real life in this situation, wouldn't you be able to see it?

No, you probably wouldn't find it. It's far away hidden in the ground clutter. If you followed it before, knowing its location you might be able to spot something.

[SharpeXB]

35 minutes ago, TheFreshPrince said:

Yeah, it is if you are already looking exactly at it. I don't want a spotting dot, I hate those things. I would like it to be rendered as closely to what I would see in real life. Do those pixels look anything like that? You say it's super easy to see, but couldn't spot it in a still image. If I had taken a picture in real life in this situation, wouldn't you be able to see it? Why are the pixels only black, why is it so small compared to the trees, etc.

People miss seeing things all the time. In games and IRL. They wouldn’t say “lose sight or lose the fight” if that didn’t happen. I miss seeing stuff all the time in these games but that doesn’t really mean there’s anything wrong with the game. Some those aircraft are fantastically visible in a replay, I just didn’t see it because I didn’t happen to be looking at it, not because it was invisible. The use of labels and icons in these games has convinced many players that seeing these things should be that easy. 
It’s funny that CFS games put labels on your enemies when FPS opponents are much less visible sometimes. Imagine how ridiculous that would be if those games had labels like this.

[SparrowLT]

I dont know how or why but yesterday on enigma i could see enemy fighters coming head on.. managed to merge with a Phamtom twice with the SU25 and in the F-5 could see dots at arround over 5nm

 

seconc picture is the phantom at arround 2 nm. first one i think its about 9

[Tippis]

2 minutes ago, SparrowLT said:

I dont know how or why but yesterday on enigma i could see enemy fighters coming head on.. managed to merge with a Phamtom twice with the SU25 and in the F-5 could see dots at arround over 5nm

 

seconc picture is the phantom at arround 2 nm. first one i think its about 9

Most likely, you're affected by the dot culling bug, which gets triggered reliably, but unevenly depending on what else is spawned in and in what order, in the direction you're looking. For bonus funpoints, the dots are culled front to back — i.e. you lose closer-in targets first, so things you are meant to see, you don't, and things you're meant not to (or at least struggle with) show up very clearly.

[Bounti30]

VR spotting dots improvements for Christmas ?

 

[Bounti30]

Only 2 days left until Christmas.
Maybe ....

[MoleUK]

On 12/16/2024 at 10:17 PM, Tippis said:

Most likely, you're affected by the dot culling bug, which gets triggered reliably, but unevenly depending on what else is spawned in and in what order, in the direction you're looking. For bonus funpoints, the dots are culled front to back — i.e. you lose closer-in targets first, so things you are meant to see, you don't, and things you're meant not to (or at least struggle with) show up very clearly.

This also affects ground units when the LOD slider is less than 1.0

There are 200 ground units here total. You can see the 100 ground units towards the back get their dots, and transition into their models as you get closer. But when the 100 in front try to transition to a dot they disappear completely, as the spotting system reaches the limit of dots it is able to display.

With the number of spotting dots capped as low as it is (100), it's not hard to run into the bug. Especially as that number total is shared between ground and air units, and it tries to give a dot to every single air and ground unit in the direction you're facing for 80 kilometers by default. And then prioritises that the most distant units get those dots before the closest one's do.

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by MoleUK

[captain_dalan]

On 12/16/2024 at 5:14 PM, speed-of-heat said:

did spotting dots get changed in the last update? I don't find then in any way effective now?

My question as well. I haven't really been flying in months and when i booted up DCS last night, just to see what the new updates did i find the spotting..... how should i say, impaired? I mean, it's not as bad as it used to in the days of yore, but at first glance, it seems like my ability to spot airborne targets inside 10 and especially 5 miles, has been diminished by about 50%. Is this the result of the new weather implementation? But i only ran instant actions on Nevada map, i haven't added any weather effects on those. Or maybe my eyesight is finally giving up?

Is anyone else experiencing difficulties in spotting things between 1 and 5 nautical miles? 
Flat monitor user BTW, 2560x1440. 

[BIGNEWY]

we have changes coming in the next patch. 

thank you

[BIGNEWY]

• Added a new Spotting Dots option which is replacing the “improved spotting dots” option. Improved spotting dots functionality which makes spotting dots independent from zoom FOV will be active all the time now. With new “Spotting Dot” setting you will be able to set: 
  • OFF - to switch spotting dots off completely
  • AUTO - automatic spotting dot size calculation based on monitor or VR hardware parameters (how it worked before)
  • 1 pixel size spotting dots
  • 2 pixel size spotting dots
    Also this setting is added to the mission editor and can be enforced through mission.
    
    https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/stable/2.9.11.4686/
    
    Please let us know your feedback on these changes 

[MoleUK]

100 remains the cap for dots atm.

However by turning the spotting dots off, a huge amount of aircraft flickering is revealed here.

Try this F-5 track at 1080p, spotting dots off, labels on, LOD at 1.0:

disappearing F5 test 200.trk

Edited December 24, 2024 by MoleUK

[mbarb]

I see no difference at all with the new Spot system.
Unable to play competitive

Pimax Crystal Light /  RTX 3080

nullI tried also Quadviews with no luck.
If I am doing something wrong please elaborate me

Happy Holidays

Kind Regards

Midnight

Edited December 24, 2024 by mbarb

[Parkour]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

• Added a new Spotting Dots option which is replacing the “improved spotting dots” option. Improved spotting dots functionality which makes spotting dots independent from zoom FOV will be active all the time now. With new “Spotting Dot” setting you will be able to set: 
  • OFF - to switch spotting dots off completely
  • AUTO - automatic spotting dot size calculation based on monitor or VR hardware parameters (how it worked before)
  • 1 pixel size spotting dots
  • 2 pixel size spotting dots
    Also this setting is added to the mission editor and can be enforced through mission.
    
    https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/stable/2.9.11.4686/
    
    Please let us know your feedback on these changes 

THANK YOU!!!

Just tested and the Spotting Dots are able to be turned OFF in VR. Thank you Thank you!  Best Christmas Present Ever. 

There are no more large squares around the aircraft or ground targets when turning it off in VR.  I love it!!  Immersion is back on the table! 

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Also this setting is added to the mission editor and can be enforced through mission.

Thank you!

Now I’m curious what Off (local) means. Does this mean they are still player controlled or forced off for everyone?

[MoleUK]

7 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Thank you!

Now I’m curious what Off (local) means. Does this mean they are still player controlled or forced off for everyone?

Player controlled I think.

[SharpeXB]

21 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

Player controlled I think.

I guess that defeats the purpose of having a mission setting

[MoleUK]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

I guess that defeats the purpose of having a mission setting

No, it means those servers wish to allow their players the freedom to choose their own preference re: spotting.

It will be a while before all the larger servers choose a new setting if that's what you were checking. I don't think many will choose to force spotting dots off, but some might.

 

[SharpeXB]

Just now, MoleUK said:

No, it means those servers wish to allow their players the freedom to choose their own preference re: spotting.

It will be a while before all the larger servers choose a new setting if that's what you were checking. I don't think many will choose to force spotting dots off, but some might.

 

As far as I can tell they’re all set for Off (Local) but that means players are free to exploit the system and just select big 2 pixel dots. 

[MoleUK]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

As far as I can tell they’re all set for Off (Local) but that means players are free to exploit the system and just select big 2 pixel dots. 

It's not an exploit, it's literally an in-game setting.

You wanted an option to have them off, you have that now. Enjoy it.

Edited December 24, 2024 by MoleUK