resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Zakson85 said:

in dcs from version 2.9.6 this option does not change anything.

Last I heard turning the Spotting Dots Off just reverts the feature back to the 2.8 version. There is no true Off setting. You need to restart DCS for this to take effect. If you aren’t seeing any effect that may be why. 

Edited September 13, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Red_Dragon]

I never saw this effect even after restart

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, Red_Dragon said:

I never saw this effect even after restart

Using VR or monitor?

[Red_Dragon]

2 минуты назад, SharpeXB сказал:

Using VR or monitor?

Oh, do we have two different variants for dots? And do you see difference?

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, Red_Dragon said:

Oh, do we have two different variants for dots? And do you see difference?

It seems like some people using VR cannot see the spotting dots. Haven’t noticed anyone who uses a monitor say that. The first round of this feature likely made them the same for both since they appeared gigantic in VR. They must have been adjusted to be different now. I don’t use VR so I can compare. You’ll note above other have. 

[PawlaczGMD]

8 hours ago, KoN said:

I've tried all of it . MSAA off and on x 2 x 4  and DLAA and DLSS I've tried all of it, hours spent testing . Some people see all in VR crystal light headsets some say they don't see the Dots either in a crystal light . So some - thing not right .

Now I hear contacts will just disappear if over lots of ground targets .??? 

Before we had a big black blob and yes that was way too big in VR but now that black blob has totally gone with out any hint of a contact . So not sure what to say . Just tested in another combat sim with openXR and I can see very clearly air targets against the backgrounds .  And i can even tell what type of airframe and what direction its going . 

Yeah, I'm on Crystal and I just don't see the dots at all, very difficult to spot things. Watching recent 2D videos on YT, the 2D spotting dots are significant and make it very easy to spot, so much easier than I am experiencing. 

I'm not happy with the experience, as in MP I'm at a huge disadvantage compared to people with different hardware, just because of some arbitrary decision on how to render spotting dots on different hardwares and settings.

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It seems like some people using VR cannot see the spotting dots. Haven’t noticed anyone who uses a monitor say that. The first round of this feature likely made them the same for both since they appeared gigantic in VR. They must have been adjusted to be different now. I don’t use VR so I can compare. You’ll note above other have. 

yeah, the problem is that people with different hardware give feedback, and they see completely different and subjective experience. So you might be happy with the current system in 2D, others are very unhappy.

Edited September 13, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[bainsy]

It is quite simple in my opinion. The higher the resolution the more difficult spotting is in DCS. It is so bad in the latest few versions that I am giving up on DCS for the time being. Will revisit in a year or so.

[Phantom_Mark]

Every time I fly I pay attention to what draws my eye to something, and every time it is reflection, reflections are what draw my eye to objects in the world and what are IMO missing from DCS, that glint from a surface can be all it takes to spot anything with windows or metal surfaces.

[PawlaczGMD]

42 minutes ago, bainsy said:

It is quite simple in my opinion. The higher the resolution the more difficult spotting is in DCS. It is so bad in the latest few versions that I am giving up on DCS for the time being. Will revisit in a year or so.

Exactly, I got a very expensive VR headset basically just for DCS, and I don't want to downscale my resolution or do any tricks like that just to be able to spot. Spotting is just so bad for me right now. It used to be a little clear dot a few updates ago, now it's nothing.

[KoN]

9 hours ago, breetai said:

I am using Pimax Crystal and I haven't been able to spot since the July update. Multiplayer is impossible unless I can find a server that allows labels, which is not how I want to play.

This is what it's all about , you have crystal and struggle and yet other crystal uses say they can see the black dots . G2 uses say they can't see anything and others say they can . Something not right here . 

[SharpeXB]

This was supposed to even up the difference between high and low resolutions. Doesn’t seem like that was accomplished. 

[KoN]

On 9/12/2024 at 8:12 AM, draconus said:

Use this mission and test for yourself.

Here's how to revert to older DCS version (only the most recent ones can be available):

No, he just pretends to know how it is.

Thanks , I'm trying to go back before 2.9 , because I think 2.9 is where the trouble starts for VR users . The lighting and shading and that DCS haze over everything. 

[KoN]

On 9/12/2024 at 1:09 PM, SharpeXB said:

No I’m using a 4K monitor

I’ve used VR headsets just not for gaming or flight sims. My impression of them was that the resolution was way too low for something like this, trying to see small targets and cockpit gauges etc. 

 

Oh man , you don't fly in VR in DCS . The spotting on the monitor and TV is decent now , but this is about VR and the lack of spotting. Before we had huge black dots not realistic at all , now I have a near grey shaded black that you can't see with out straining your eye sight , I can see a claim coming DCS way .... Lol . 

[KoN]

6 hours ago, Red_Dragon said:

Oh, do we have two different variants for dots? And do you see difference?

Same system but looks completely different on flat screen to VR . 

Back in the day VR users had an advantage because targets were slightly bigger and could easily be seen compared to flat screen users . Then 2.9 came along that changed the lighting and shading. Looks good on YouTube but in reality contacts started to disappear and lost shape . The dots are contacts . Roll on vulkan . If that fails , God help us . ED must be well aware by now that they have a problem. 

[Cab]

29 minutes ago, KoN said:

Same system but looks completely different on flat screen to VR . 

Back in the day VR users had an advantage because targets were slightly bigger and could easily be seen compared to flat screen users . Then 2.9 came along that changed the lighting and shading. Looks good on YouTube but in reality contacts started to disappear and lost shape . The dots are contacts . Roll on vulkan . If that fails , God help us . ED must be well aware by now that they have a problem. 

I'm not confident that's the case...

11 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty happy currently however it does vary between systems, resolutions and hardware, so we need to try and tweak it some more, hopefully to make as many people as happy as possible. It is still being discussed and tweaked internally, before I went away on holiday we had another round of internal testing and feedback. I hope we can share more news soon. 

 

[DoorMouse]

14 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty happy currently however it does vary between systems, resolutions and hardware, so we need to try and tweak it some more, hopefully to make as many people as happy as possible. It is still being discussed and tweaked internally, before I went away on holiday we had another round of internal testing and feedback. I hope we can share more news soon. 

How can this possibly be the case.... there must be something lost in translation.

It is not working at all for a large number of VR users. On the spectrum of happy, where is "feature doesn't exist"? 

[Cab]

4 hours ago, DoorMouse said:

How can this possibly be the case.... there must be something lost in translation.

It is not working at all for a large number of VR users. On the spectrum of happy, where is "feature doesn't exist"? 

Looking at it from the other side, although many of us think this is a quite large problem, it could be that fixing it will just require a small amount of code tweaking. We’ll just have to wait and see. 

[Zakson85]

Apparently the MP community is only 10%. I'm not sure about this number, but it doesn't matter. If this is true, then it is possible that this 10% is not a priority for ed. I feel like our crying goes unnoticed. However, every positive feedback gets a "cookie"

I was full of hope in April, creating an account here just to describe what causes the problem of disappearing dots, a video showing step by step. How to trigger it. Now I think it was a waste of my time.

I don't know if they know they have a problem, they probably know that less and less people play dcs. Steam gives us this data.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Zakson85 said:

I was full of hope in April, creating an account here just to describe what causes the problem of disappearing dots, a video showing step by step. How to trigger it. Now I think it was a waste of my time.

You keep repeating that but I don't think it's good to mix that special case (a bug) with general spotting. I'd leave it to its own thread:

I did the tests and also made a mission where anyone can test their setup and I know why I don't see any meanigful feedback in the "for me the dot disappers at x miles" style. I'm afraid it's because it doesn't happen for anyone and they actually see the dot for at least 8-10 miles. Which means it's realistic but it's no longer easy and this is where the outcry come from. Easy is not the goal here but realism. For easy mode there already are other options.

The general feedback is mostly useless here. What developers have to do with "it's so bad?" Do something? Go back to previous iterations? Not gonna happen. They say they work on it and will tweak it.

[Zakson85]

You have rift-s entered in the footer. Do you test your settings on these goggles and base your opinions on them? Because this may also be important.

[draconus]

1 minute ago, Zakson85 said:

You have rift-s entered in the footer. Do you test your settings on these goggles and base your opinions on them?

Of course I do.

[303_Kermit]

58 minutes ago, draconus said:

Of course I do.

I also do poses Rift-s 
I can say many nice thing about them. They're great... For Minecraft VR. And I left them there. Actually they're IMO Minecraft dedicated since every game looks like Minecraft in them.

Edited September 14, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[KoN]

So I've been playing around with the different settings in VR , any upscale like DLSS or alike reduces the spotting you won't see anything until right on top of you and has already made a pass with guns . Yea that close . 

Best option is MSAA x 2 . For me . If turned off , I think the game looks awful. So I need MSAA .

Reshade 6 is working in VR . XRNS still not working with new updates. Another good VR mod disabled. 

Edited September 17, 2024 by KoN

[KoN]

On 9/14/2024 at 10:42 AM, Zakson85 said:

Apparently the MP community is only 10%. I'm not sure about this number, but it doesn't matter. If this is true, then it is possible that this 10% is not a priority for ed. I feel like our crying goes unnoticed. However, every positive feedback gets a "cookie"

I was full of hope in April, creating an account here just to describe what causes the problem of disappearing dots, a video showing step by step. How to trigger it. Now I think it was a waste of my time.

I don't know if they know they have a problem, they probably know that less and less people play dcs. Steam gives us this data.

Looking at some popular guns only servers they have lost quite a few players. I fly 90% online in competitive servers , and I hear people on SRS , all the time saying that can't see the targets. Mostly VR users. 

As the saying goes "go woke go broke .

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, KoN said:

you won't see anything until right on top of you and has already made a pass with guns . Yea that close . 

Definitely something wrong there. Realize the dots are in fact just dots and at that range the 3D model would be bigger than the dots. I can see other aircraft very well miles away and I’m seeing a model, not a dot. I can see small missiles like Mavs flying to their targets. 

Dots have another issue which is afaik they’re just black. I don’t think light colored dots appear over dark backgrounds, how could they? The ocean is especially good at contrasting light colored aircraft in front of it or that AGM-65.