New S-3 Viking Model Issue

[bonesvf103]

This is not necessarily a bug but just something I noticed with the new S-3 model.  First of all, it looks great, I love the fuel pod propellers working and the lights.  The issue I am having though is the hose seems to be awfully short.  So short that I have to get my nose pretty much right up to the fuel cell to plug, and then when I do, I have to get so close to the Viking wing to maintain the plug that stick and throttle inputs have to be microscopically tiny or else you will fall out of the basket.  Even these nano adjustments in stick/throttle can induce PIO in an instant if you're not careful.  It didn't seem that difficult before but I think the hose was longer before 2.9.

It's not impossible, I can still take a full drink, but it will take multiple successful plugs adding up to that and I used to be able to just stay in the whole time with what seemed to be a longer hose.

Is this how it really should be?

v6,

boNes

[silverdevil]

20 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

This is not necessarily a bug but just something I noticed with the new S-3 model.  First of all, it looks great, I love the fuel pod propellers working and the lights.  The issue I am having though is the hose seems to be awfully short.  So short that I have to get my nose pretty much right up to the fuel cell to plug, and then when I do, I have to get so close to the Viking wing to maintain the plug that stick and throttle inputs have to be microscopically tiny or else you will fall out of the basket.  Even these nano adjustments in stick/throttle can induce PIO in an instant if you're not careful.  It didn't seem that difficult before but I think the hose was longer before 2.9.

It's not impossible, I can still take a full drink, but it will take multiple successful plugs adding up to that and I used to be able to just stay in the whole time with what seemed to be a longer hose.

Is this how it really should be?

v6,

boNes

hello. can you share some screen shots? it would be helpful to see the issue.

[MAXsenna]

This is not necessarily a bug but just something I noticed with the new S-3 model.  First of all, it looks great, I love the fuel pod propellers working and the lights.  The issue I am having though is the hose seems to be awfully short.  So short that I have to get my nose pretty much right up to the fuel cell to plug, and then when I do, I have to get so close to the Viking wing to maintain the plug that stick and throttle inputs have to be microscopically tiny or else you will fall out of the basket.  Even these nano adjustments in stick/throttle can induce PIO in an instant if you're not careful.  It didn't seem that difficult before but I think the hose was longer before 2.9.
It's not impossible, I can still take a full drink, but it will take multiple successful plugs adding up to that and I used to be able to just stay in the whole time with what seemed to be a longer hose.
Is this how it really should be?
v6,
boNes

It's definitely shorter. Wether that's realistic or not I have no clue. A Goggle search will probably yield results. I had to re-teach myself how to do it proficiently.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[bonesvf103]

15 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

hello. can you share some screen shots? it would be helpful to see the issue.

I think so, I can upload it later today, and a track if need be.

v6,

boNes

4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

It's definitely shorter. Wether that's realistic or not I have no clue. A Goggle search will probably yield results. I had to re-teach myself how to do it proficiently.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Cool, either we are correct or we will be cellmates at Arkham Asylum.

v6,

boNes

[Zebra1-1]

I noticed this as well. The hose is shorter and it disconnects super easy. This started with the updated S-3 model. Definitely seems like a bug. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Zebra1-1

[Tom Kazansky]

For comparison.

It's 9 months old:

And 2.9

 

edit: the FOV is pretty different and the camera at the beginning  of the older video seems to be a bit misleading.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Tom Kazansky

[MAXsenna]

One more thing. The basket is "higher", more level with the tanker too. That's what I noticed the most, so at least for me, it's easier in the Tomcat now, because I can see the tanker better.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[silverdevil]

how does this pic compare to the issue?

[bonesvf103]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

One more thing. The basket is "higher", more level with the tanker too. That's what I noticed the most, so at least for me, it's easier in the Tomcat now, because I can see the tanker better.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Yes I noticed it was higher too.  Didn't change anything much for me though since I base my reference point from the fuel cell only.

 

Which leads me to something I wanted to add about the original posts.  For those who are learning AAR for the first time, it's all well and good where you read from one person to use the S-3 tailhook or another to use the canopy bow, yet another to use the fuel cell for reference etc etc.  But keep in mind that this is all very subjective.  The views depend alot, I think, on your own personal situation.  If you are using TrackIR, the viewis ont the same as in VR, or without any head tracker.  If you have your view zoomed in or even out, that can change the sight picture.  Your HOTAS and how it responds to stickand throttle inputs could affect it.  What I'm trying to say is that these tips are helpful, but you still are going to have to find what works for YOU or you have to find your own reference point that works for you.  I mean, even you physical height or your posture in your IRL seat can change things.  So find what works for you and stick to it.  The only thing that would be the same nomatter your gear, your size, your eyesight etc, is the amount of input you put in.  You should be putting in only a teeny tiny bit of input, and then immediately countering it with the opposite.  Put a little in and then take it out, etc.  Anything more than that and you will put in too much correction and chase the basket all over the place, setting yourself up for PIO (pilot-induced oscillation) and thus increasing your chances of missing, getting frustrated, and venting it by putting a weapon into the tanker's six.

Just a tip.  When you can tank from and with anything.  I've tanked from an S-2, KC-135, KC-130, and even the IL in both a Tomcat and a Hornet and it was all the same technique, more or less.  Even in the F-16 with the boom the same principal applied even though there was no basket.  So try to keep that in mind.

v6,

boNes

 

PS in the S-3, how do you interpret the flashing lights on the fuel cell?

Edited November 6, 2023 by bonesvf103

[MAXsenna]

50 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

 

PS in the S-3, how do you interpret the flashing lights on the fuel cell?

I'm still trying to figure that out. It was easy in the Il, but this one has me stumped. 

I totally agree with the rest of your post. Especially "what works for you"! What made it click for me, was when I found out my own reference points, and the different oddeties and querks for each module.  

[bonesvf103]

20 hours ago, silverdevil said:

hello. can you share some screen shots? it would be helpful to see the issue.

 

 

Refuel Fight Recover.trk

[guiduz]

I encountered the same challenges because of an evidently shorter fuel hose.

Quote

@Zebra1-1 

I noticed this as well. The hose is shorter and it disconnects super easy. This started with the updated S-3 model. Definitely seems like a bug. 

 

[Tomcatter87]

I've noticed two issues with the new S-3:

1. The model has a hole in the belly, at about the place where the system operators sit. You can see inside the plane from below.

2. If the AI refuels (Tomcats, in my case) sometimes the plane which is being refueled slides up and stays about at the height or the S-3's wing. Dont know if it has to do with the F-14 or the S-3, though.

[Zebra1-1]

Refueling still seems broken. 

At least with the F/A-18.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Zebra1-1

[Endline]

Tried refuelling yesterday with the Tomcat. 

First the animation seemed broken as the hose looked so stiff that it resembled more a pole than a fuel hose and sometimes the probe would clip through the basket.

Second the S-3 retracted the basket prematurely, way before I was close to being full and dived away.

I'll try to get a track. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Endline

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Endline said:

Second the S-3 retracted the basket prematurely, way before I was close to being full and dived away.

That would likely indicate it was EMPTY.  It has a fairly small capacity and an F-18 can pretty much drain it, so if any other aircraft (AI or human) hit it before you or possibly just the F-14 (not sure how much fuel it can take) could drain it.

[Northstar98]

21 minutes ago, rob10 said:

That would likely indicate it was EMPTY.  It has a fairly small capacity and an F-18 can pretty much drain it, so if any other aircraft (AI or human) hit it before you or possibly just the F-14 (not sure how much fuel it can take) could drain it.

Part of that issue though is that in DCS, the S-3B tanker unit only has internal fuel available - both the air refuelling store and the buddy store contain 0 fuel and there's no way of adding fuel to them (they should both add 300 US gallons of fuel (~2000 lbs) each). In addition they're also treated as if they're massless looking at the rearming and refuelling window.

[Endline]

17 hours ago, rob10 said:

That would likely indicate it was EMPTY.  It has a fairly small capacity and an F-18 can pretty much drain it, so if any other aircraft (AI or human) hit it before you or possibly just the F-14 (not sure how much fuel it can take) could drain it.

It couldn't have been empty. It's an instant action mission, which starts with the S-3 1nm ahead for the player to refuel.

[rob10]

See this thread.  As I said, you drained the S-3 to it's minimum (it needs to keep some to get back to the boat).  The linked thread has the actual amounts that will show that you CAN'T get full tanks in the F-14 if you start from fairly low.

 

[Endline]

Perhaps others can offer their experiences as well but prior to 2.9 I never had trouble topping up in this particular mission (Refuel Fight Recover).

[guiduz]

This is a picture from a video from a couple of years ago. 

The hose is clearly longer.

When is anybody going to fix this bug?

Edited March 27, 2024 by guiduz

[MAXsenna]

Perhaps others can offer their experiences as well but prior to 2.9 I never had trouble topping up in this particular mission (Refuel Fight Recover).

It's seems to me that it actually gives you less fuel now in the mission you mentioned, which is my pretty much my go to mission, and I have done it hundreds off times. Even in 2.8 connecting the basket before the first turn, and staying connected, I would never be topped off. And immediately after Jester calls 16 something, the tanker would withdraw the basket and dive for the ship.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Zebra1-1]

This seems much better now. Still a short hose, but this might be accurate to RL.