Intel hybrid CPU Getting stutter? Please try this in multithreading DCS

[sze5003]

i had a lot of micro stutters with my pc under windows 10 and looking at the posts i realized that pc's under windows 11 had a lot less problems. so i migrated to windows 11 and indeed i don't have micro stutters anymore. a friend with an amd processor couldn't do vr anymore because of the stutters, he also migrated to windows 11 and he can fly vr again without stutters. for me the mt.lua file under windows 10 didn't improve things.
 
I7 12700k - RTX4080 32G ddr5

I may have to go to windows 11. Although I'm probably gonna need to do a clean install. I don't trust the upgrade option.

[slughead]

11 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

43 minutes ago, bts-yanou said:

i had a lot of micro stutters with my pc under windows 10 and looking at the posts i realized that pc's under windows 11 had a lot less problems. so i migrated to windows 11 and indeed i don't have micro stutters anymore. a friend with an amd processor couldn't do vr anymore because of the stutters, he also migrated to windows 11 and he can fly vr again without stutters. for me the mt.lua file under windows 10 didn't improve things.
 
I7 12700k - RTX4080 32G ddr5

I may have to go to windows 11. Although I'm probably gonna need to do a clean install. I don't trust the upgrade option.

I have upgraded two machines. There was no problem at all. Everything continued to work as usual. I do have a daily backup process in place so I always have a backup to restore from.

[Hiob]

22 minutes ago, sze5003 said:

54 minutes ago, bts-yanou said:

i had a lot of micro stutters with my pc under windows 10 and looking at the posts i realized that pc's under windows 11 had a lot less problems. so i migrated to windows 11 and indeed i don't have micro stutters anymore. a friend with an amd processor couldn't do vr anymore because of the stutters, he also migrated to windows 11 and he can fly vr again without stutters. for me the mt.lua file under windows 10 didn't improve things.
 
I7 12700k - RTX4080 32G ddr5

I may have to go to windows 11. Although I'm probably gonna need to do a clean install. I don't trust the upgrade option.

Unless you happen to make a clean install for every feature update, there is really no need. I have yet to see a problem report for the update route. I certainly didn’t experience any problems. Just check all the settings (which I would also recommend for a clean install anyway).

There‘s much to hate about Windows for sure, but credit where credit‘s due, it is nearly impossible to break nowadays.

[bts-yanou]

3 hours ago, Red_Pilot said:

It sounds convincing, BUT!There are days when DCS works with Windows 10 absolutely flawlessly. This means at least that windows 10 can potentially handle this

yes, dcs should work normally with windows 10 without being forced to migrate to windows 11.

I did a clean reinstall of Windows 10. I tried every trick I could find(core parking,mt.lua, affinity mask etc..), but in my case, it was the migration to Windows 11 that worked.

Edited November 24, 2023 by bts-yanou

[slughead]

19 minutes ago, bts-yanou said:

dcs should work normally with windows 10 without being forced to migrate to windows 11

Why? Why should ED continue to support a platform that is going to be obsolete in the very near future?

Edited November 24, 2023 by slughead

[Hiob]

2 hours ago, slughead said:

Why? Why should ED continue to support a platform that is going to be obsolete in the very near future?

 

Well, you don't cease to support an OS whilst it still has a huge market share.

But apart from that - W11 isn't safe from stuttering and W10 doesn't cause stuttering for everybody. We haven't reached a final conclusion yet afaik, so fighting over support for W10/11 is rather pointless.

[slughead]

15 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Well, you don't cease to support an OS whilst it still has a huge market share.

Market share? It doesn't have a share of any market as it isn't sold any more. People need to move on or they will ultimately be left behind.

Edited November 24, 2023 by slughead

[ruiner_]

7 hours ago, slughead said:

Market share? It doesn't have a share of any market as it isn't sold any more. People need to move on or they will ultimately be left behind.

 

It doesn't matter if it's not being sold anymore if it's still a huge portion of your customers' install base. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by ruiner_

[vgilsoler]

8 hours ago, slughead said:

Market share? It doesn't have a share of any market as it isn't sold any more. People need to move on or they will ultimately be left behind.

 

It is under support by MSFT until 2025. So for those don’t match the requirements for W11 have some time to update the hardware and migrate.

[YoYo]

  Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 2025 only so lack of support for W10 would mean shooting in the foot at the beginning for any developer not to mention the exclusion of, say, approximately 3/4 of the market:

Quote

As of October 2023, Windows 11, at 24.42% worldwide,[19] is the second most popular Windows version in use, with its predecessor Windows 10 at three times the market share. Windows 11 has an estimated 16.62% share of all PCs (the rest being other Windows editions and other operating systems such as macOS and Linux), and an estimated 7.54% share of all devices (including mobile, tablet and console)[20] are running Windows 11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11

Of course, development is one thing, but development is not about replacing a circle with a square and saying that from now on its a circle.

[speed-of-heat]

12 hours ago, bts-yanou said:

yes, dcs should work normally with windows 10 without being forced to migrate to windows 11.

I did a clean reinstall of Windows 10. I tried every trick I could find(core parking,mt.lua, affinity mask etc..), but in my case, it was the migration to Windows 11 that worked.

 

Sort of makes the assumption that the problem in Ed's gift to control, and not a feature of Windows, as a W11 user who still has this issue...albeit occasionally... And mitigated with cpu affinity,and MT.lua  Moving to multi threaded code is *hard* optimisation is a bastard across multiple chipsets and firmwares and operating systems... And it might be more practical in a initial instance to optimise for a single path and see if that works... etc... This is going to take time to get right... 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by speed-of-heat

[Hiob]

9 hours ago, slughead said:

Market share? It doesn't have a share of any market as it isn't sold any more. People need to move on or they will ultimately be left behind.

 

Share of sales <> market share. …and yes ultimately W10 will be obsolete. But before that W12 will have been released and we will probably celebrate x-mas more than once……

[AstonMartinDBS]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:49 PM, BIGNEWY said:

we expected it would work for some CPU's / users and not others

Referring to my previous feedback to the positive effect of the mt.lua I have to correct my statement.

Yesterday evening I tried the UH-1H landing training mission. After successful landing in Senaki-Kholki I continued the mission with a free flight to Kobuleti, where I experienced a few stutters and lags of > 2 seconds.

Probably the used module(s) and map(s) are also an important factor for this issue. It didn't occur so far when I used the AH-64D at PG with mt.lua on my rig (see signature).

Edit: Right now I had stutters even in the main menu. This has been the first time since weeks and the first time since using the mt.lua.

Edited November 25, 2023 by AstonMartinDBS

[BIGNEWY]

folks please dont derail the thread, keep it for feedback of the mt.lua

thank you to everyone for the feedback, the team will need to consider the results here carefully. 

thank you

[DrBob]

I tweaked the oculus debug tool, then the NCP, open xr also, set priority high in task manager then monitored the individual cores and had to disable individual ones, of course after unparking them and tweaking power plan trough reg edit ... and on and on and on .... I mean really?!?!?

This is crazy !

In VR at least and the core dcs software is buggy and disappointing!!!

People here have crazy rigs, i9s 4090s etc., and still get stutters and bottlenecks and all.

And mt is still in beta !?

In 2023?

[YoYo]

47 minutes ago, DrBob said:

I tweaked the oculus debug tool, then the NCP, open xr also, set priority high in task manager then monitored the individual cores and had to disable individual ones, of course after unparking them and tweaking power plan trough reg edit ... and on and on and on .... I mean really?!?!?

This is crazy !

In VR at least and the core dcs software is buggy and disappointing!!!

People here have crazy rigs, i9s 4090s etc., and still get stutters and bottlenecks and all.

And mt is still in beta !?

In 2023?

Unpark cores, it helps me 100%, no issue after this. There's a separate thread here how to do this. Of course, I fully agree that it shouldn't look like this and many people don't want to touch anything. Playing certain games Today undoubtedly requires an expert knowledge user ;).

Edited November 25, 2023 by YoYo

[RADARCH58]

Have installed the mt.lua patch with no difference noticed. Frame rates on Syria map get as low as 6FPS! with stutters of up to a second.

Running Windows 10 on Intel 10700, 4070 GPU and 32Gig RAM

Edited November 26, 2023 by RADARCH58

[Gripen 4-1]

@BIGNEWY

are there any news or ideas what the problem with the MT branch is at the moment? As I said it is NOT ONLY an Intel problem. The MT branch is stuttering like hell on my AMD rig. Tried and tweaked a lot but was not able to get rid of the stuttering. Althoug it is better if I disable hyperthreading / SMT, it is far from stutter free.

Removed every overclock on my system, but did not cure the problem.

Please make this problem high priority, it completely kills the immersion in VR.

Made some screenshots from Win10 taskmanager. 

 

1st screenshot: DCS MT with SMT / Hyperthreading on caucasus F-18 free flight

2nd screenshot: DCS MT with SMT / Hyperthreading on syria F-18 free flight

3rd DCS MT with SMT / Hyperthreading OFF syria free flight

4th screenshot: DCS MT with SMT / Hyperthreading OFF caucasus free flight

Edited November 26, 2023 by Gripen 4-1

[mmike87]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:05 PM, slughead said:

Market share? It doesn't have a share of any market as it isn't sold any more. People need to move on or they will ultimately be left behind.

 

I'm still on Windows 10 and have a fresh-ish install and a 13900K and have had no issues with DCS allocating threads to appropriate cores. I don't want to upgrade to Windows 11 yet -I have no reason to.

Edited November 26, 2023 by mmike87

[sze5003]

I recently fresh installed windows 11 and DCS multithreaded still does not properly use the cores for my 13900k. I still have to deselect CPU core 8 whenever DCS would end up freezing, to get it unstuck. I also had to do this one windows 10.

At least with quad views installed it's easier to get better fps but the microstutters are still there.

[YoYo]

11 hours ago, sze5003 said:

I recently fresh installed windows 11 and DCS multithreaded still does not properly use the cores for my 13900k. I still have to deselect CPU core 8 whenever DCS would end up freezing, to get it unstuck. I also had to do this one windows 10.

At least with quad views installed it's easier to get better fps but the microstutters are still there.

Did you unpark all cores on Win11 or not? Id like to know, I have the same CPU and Im still on Win10 as well.

[sze5003]

Did you unpark all cores on Win11 or not? Id like to know, I have the same CPU and Im still on Win10 as well.

No I did not unpark all cores. Since it was a fresh install with the latest drivers and everything I wanted to try DCS before I started putting more of my programs on the PC.

I will try to unpark them next time I'm on the computer but I suspect the same thing will happen, dcs will just hammer 2 of the cores as it does now and eventually after a while it will freeze until I uncheck CPU core 8 to get it unfrozen.

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, sze5003 said:

No I did not unpark all cores. Since it was a fresh install with the latest drivers and everything I wanted to try DCS before I started putting more of my programs on the PC.

I will try to unpark them next time I'm on the computer but I suspect the same thing will happen, dcs will just hammer 2 of the cores as it does now and eventually after a while it will freeze until I uncheck CPU core 8 to get it unfrozen.

All in all, it's not a good sign, because although Win11 was supposed to manage cores better, it turns out that it is not a Holy grail for newer processors if we talk about this DCS MT problem. The bigger problem concerns series of hybrid CPU like 12 and 13th from what I see and it is still valid however now I have win10 still (maybe I will switch to Win11 in December) HT=on, all unparked cores (by this more advanced way) and freezes gone.

[Ram69]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:18 AM, YoYo said:

All in all, it's not a good sign, because although Win11 was supposed to manage cores better, it turns out that it is not a Holy grail for newer processors if we talk about this DCS MT problem. The bigger problem concerns series of hybrid CPU like 12 and 13th from what I see and it is still valid however now I have win10 still (maybe I will switch to Win11 in December) HT=on, all unparked cores (by this more advanced way) and freezes gone.

Don't want to derail this, but fwiw, I did a completely fresh install of win 11 (was previously on win 10) on a brand new 4tb m.2 and the whole stutter issue got worse for me in Win 11, than it was on win 10. I tried unparking cores on win 11 (and 10, previously), along with the usual suggestions and it didn't make any difference for me. Went from still being able to have enjoyable play sessions on win 10, to putting dcs aside for now, unfortunately. I say this only to let you know that moving to win11 isn't a holy grail here (at least not in my experience). In my case, it actually made things worse. YMMV, but set expectations accordingly. 

[speed-of-heat]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:18 PM, Ram69 said:

Don't want to derail this, but fwiw, I did a completely fresh install of win 11 (was previously on win 10) on a brand new 4tb m.2 and the whole stutter issue got worse for me in Win 11, than it was on win 10. I tried unparking cores on win 11 (and 10, previously), along with the usual suggestions and it didn't make any difference for me. Went from still being able to have enjoyable play sessions on win 10, to putting dcs aside for now, unfortunately. I say this only to let you know that moving to win11 isn't a holy grail here (at least not in my experience). In my case, it actually made things worse. YMMV, but set expectations accordingly. 

did you turn off Memory Integrity and VMP ?