Complain about L-39 follow up !

[-Scrat-]

Hi,

@BIGNEWY

@Flappie

Just a quick message to say that I am (we are) getting frustrated to see that nothing is being done to fix all the issues that have already been raised. I am aware this is not the same priority as the Hornet, Viper etc... however for issues that have been raised for years on a commercial module, that is still for sale on your platform, this is quite unacceptable, 

Please can you address these issues as soon as possible to enable a better experience with this module for everyone. 

Thank you !!!

Scrat 

[Joss]

+1 !

[dam137]

+1

[Morpheus]

+1

[BIGNEWY]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:28 PM, -Scrat- said:

Hi,

@BIGNEWY

@Flappie

Just a quick message to say that I am (we are) getting frustrated to see that nothing is being done to fix all the issues that have already been raised. I am aware this is not the same priority as the Hornet, Viper etc... however for issues that have been raised for years on a commercial module, that is still for sale on your platform, this is quite unacceptable, 

Please can you address these issues as soon as possible to enable a better experience with this module for everyone. 

Thank you !!!

Scrat 

Dear Scrat, 

I will pass on your comments to the team, however I can not give you any timeline. Currently the dev team are on the New years break, and it will depend on the teams other workload and tasks after they return. 

thank you 

 

[-Scrat-]

Hi @BIGNEWY

Thanks for your message I appreciated !

I (we) really hope that something happens for the L-39 soon...

Cheers 

Scrat 

[Morpheus]

Three years now .... Let's hope 

 

[Archangel44]

+1

Im not one to complain, in fact I tell people if you don’t like it, do something about it to make it right.

 

But Gulf Delta, How Foxtrot long do we have to wait for a programmer, who’s overwhelmed with multiple projects to take some time and fix these problems.

It should not come as a surprise to the Dev’s that so many of their customers are opting out on the “Pre Purchase Programs. Folks aren’t interested in paying upfront for a product that only partially works just to have to wait for it to fixed, while the Dev’s move onto other projects.

I smell ADD in the room and I’m considered a veteran in knowing these symptoms as I have had since 5 years old.

Would you buy a new car created with the same care as ED does with its mods?

Dont answer that publicly as it may affect your roll here as a moderator/ team member.

Archangel out.

[Oreo147]

I paid 60 bucks for the L-39 a while back and these issues not getting fixed makes this product start feeling more and more like a scam, really. 

If you can't fix some basic issues throughout a period of literal years, maybe consider adding to the product page that the product is practically not supported anymore. 

Priority or not, people paid money for a functioning product and it's the developers' responsibility to keep a module working properly. Just because it's not the main source of their income does not mean they have the right to sell a broken product. 

But yeah, then no one will buy it and ED needs their cash grab money...

Edited April 26, 2024 by Oreo147

[Rudel_chw]

6 minutes ago, Oreo147 said:

I paid 60 bucks for the L-39 a while back and these issues not getting fixed makes this product start feeling more and more like a scam, really. 

60 bucks? … you really ought to take advantage of the frequent sales that ED does, I paid us$35 for my L-39 during a sale back on 2017. You could also have avoided this "scam" by doing a free 2-week trial before purchasing, or at least take a glimpse at this Forum to gather opinions prior to spending your money.

[Volator]

3 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

take advantage of the frequent sales

That's not the point, and while I wouldn't use the word "scam" and am still confident that the L-39 and other older modules will get some attention by the devs at some point in the future, I also am not happy with the timespan between those overhauls bugfixes and that other modules (the cash cows F-16, F/A-18 and AH-64) do get significantly more attention. 

Edited April 26, 2024 by Volator
Changed "overhaul" for "bugfixes"

[Rudel_chw]

11 minutes ago, Volator said:

That's not the point, and while I wouldn't use the word "scam" and am still confident that the L-39 and other older modules will get some attention by the devs at some point in the future, I also am not happy with the timespan between those overhauls and that other modules (the cash cows F-16, F/A-18 and AH-64) do get significantly more attention. 

ok, but this thread is about "fix all the issues" of the module, not overhauling it. When I purchase a dcs module, I buy it "as is", there is no compromise of overhauling it every few years … it would be an impossible cost for the developer to have the original price cover the cost of such overhauls.

on my case, the issues that the L-39 has do not bother me all that much, and I feel that the flying that I have done with it over the years make it a worthwhile purchase, so I don’t feel "scammed" at all, but that’s me  

[paco2002]

I have to say, that it is not a scam... But it's not too far from it right now. There are minor bugs, and major bugs (to simplify). If a minor bug is not limitant to the gameplay, it will have low priority, and that's ok. The issue is, that there is no actual fix, nor communication from the devs on what is being done (nothing).

The gun camera bug has been since 2018 (?), and the hand of the pilot flying to Narnia when the stick is hidden... Worth note, you have to select it to hide from the MAIN MENU... Wouldn't a click on the stick better? Like almost all the other modules. Another one, multicrew desync, still bugged... I don't want to hate for free but it's in such a bad situation that makes me feel sad... It looks like it will be like this forever.

[-Scrat-]

Hi,

@BIGNEWY

@Flappie

@NineLine

I have posted this thread almost a year ago, complaining that there was no follow-up on the L-39 update. 

I am really frustrated to see that nothing has changed in one year, and that bugs keep on accumulating. 

I have a feeling that ED is taking customers for 'cash cows', and doing nothing to maintain or develop ''old'' products. 

Please stop releasing new modules and start maintaining and developing the previous ones as this is creating lots of frustration among the community. 

Regards,

Scrat

 

 

Edited November 3, 2024 by -Scrat-

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, -Scrat- said:

Please stop releasing new modules and start maintaining and developing the previous ones

 

If ED were to do that, how do you expect they to keep their income to pay their employees?  

[-Scrat-]

1 minute ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

If ED were to do that, how do you expect they to keep their income to pay their employees?  

So maybe they should review their business model. 

When so many modules are out, how do you maintain consistency and quality according to you ?

Scrat

[Rudel_chw]

9 minutes ago, -Scrat- said:

When so many modules are out, how do you maintain consistency and quality according to you ?

 

You mean how do you fix bugs, isnt it?  ... according to me, ED splits its manpower in two parts: one to maintain the DCS core and do bug fixing, the other part to keep developing new Modules and finish up those still in early access.

[-Scrat-]

9 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

You mean how do you fix bugs, isnt it?  ... according to me, ED splits its manpower in two parts: one to maintain the DCS core and do bug fixing, the other part to keep developing new Modules and finish up those still in early access.

As you said, one team to maintain and do bug fixing which is not done and this is exaclty my point. 

Some of the L-39 bugs have been present for years ! 

Scrat

[Fusedspine33]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:02 AM, Rudel_chw said:

60 bucks? … you really ought to take advantage of the frequent sales that ED does, I paid us$35 for my L-39 during a sale back on 2017. You could also have avoided this "scam" by doing a free 2-week trial before purchasing, or at least take a glimpse at this Forum to gather opinions prior to spending your money.

️ + = comment with no purpose. The customer paid full price for a product and expects it to receive updates and fixes in a timely manner. Devs are busy elsewhere is not a good enough answer. Millions of our dollars have been loaned out instead of being used to hire programmers and artists to fix problems just like these. 
 

On 11/3/2024 at 10:52 AM, Rudel_chw said:

 

You mean how do you fix bugs, isnt it?  ... according to me, ED splits its manpower in two parts: one to maintain the DCS core and do bug fixing, the other part to keep developing new Modules and finish up those still in early access.

If what you say was true bug fixes would be happening. Don't you have a module in development? Wouldn't your time be better spent on that.

[Rudel_chw]

3 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

The customer paid full price for a product and expects it to receive updates and fixes in a timely manner.

 

fixes yes, updates? why? would you sell a software and then have to keep updating it forever for free?
 

3 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

If what you say was true bug fixes would be happening.

don’t  you check the patch logs that ED puts out monthly? Most of its items are fixes.

[Fusedspine33]

18 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

fixes yes, updates? why? would you sell a software and then have to keep updating it forever for free?
 

don’t  you check the patch logs that ED puts out monthly? Most of its items are fixes.

The question is don't you read the patch notes? Since the beginning of 2021 (DCS 2.5.6) the L-39 has received one (1) module level bug fix on 22-2-24 Fixed FKP circle is oval. The L-39 has received 3 mission repairs, UPDATES or additions, 10-4-24 Instant action missions added Marianas, 30-12-21 Fixed training missions wrong take off direction, 11-6-21 UPDATED cloud settings in IA missions.

ED is selling the L-39 in their store at up to full price. It is not listed as "AS IS" or EOL. You better believe the customer has a reasonable expectation for timely bug fixes and as they state, in their own words, in the patch notes UPDATES. Four in four years isn't a good track record. I am happy to pay for modernized graphical improvements based on new technology and enhanced capabilities not sold during EA but not functionality for features sold at launch. 

You personally are spoken about at great length on several non ED controlled groups. Questions have long existed about how you and several others are allowed to gas light and troll without challenge from the moderators. Your comments above chiding a user for not buying on sale and how you should only expect what is present and not what has been promised. How exactly does that hold water with EA being the standard for releases or modules being released from EA without all features present? These comments are unnecessary ad hominem attacks designed to stifle bug reporting and suppress reasonable complaints over a lack of attention to reported bugs that exist in purchases customers have made. 
 

Noticed you ducked the questions on your module in development. 

[Rudel_chw]

9 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

The question is don't you read the patch notes?

 

I do, but I admit that my attention at that point is on whatever aircraft I'm flying, not the L-39 in particular.

 

9 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

ED is selling the L-39 in their store at up to full price. It is not listed as "AS IS"

 

Never said that it was listed as such, my words where: "When I purchase a dcs module, I buy it "as is" .. at the moment I meant that on the DCS market I purchase Modules for what they are at the moment, not hoping for any future improvements. That way, whatever improvement may come along is like "a bonus"  

 

9 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

You personally are spoken about at great length on several non ED controlled groups. Questions have long existed about how you and several others are allowed to gas light and troll without challenge from the moderators.

 

"gas light and troll?"  .. those people need to look into a mirror.

 

9 hours ago, Fusedspine33 said:

These comments are unnecessary ad hominem attacks designed to stifle bug reporting and suppress reasonable complaints over a lack of attention to reported bugs that exist in purchases customers have made. 

 

So, I'm an "attacker" ... yeah, right ... well for sure I will strive to get out of your way from now on, as debating with you isnt healthy. There is nothing more I can say about this, bye.