Mind if I play "devil's advocate"?

[KILSEK]

Hi all.

 

I left Saint Louis for Asheville N.C. last Sunday(2-27) for work. I got back this past Sat. afternoon filled with excitment that F.C. would be released and being played by all. We all know this is not the case. It is delayed by this copy protection problem. I would like to play devil's advocate for this scenario and get some feedback for what I am about to say. I want to make absolutely clear that I am against theft.

 

OK, so I d/l my purchased copy of F.C. and burn it to a cd. Now, is this copy protection supposed to stop me from coping that cd and giving it to someone else who did not buy it?

 

In business and in life theft is a part of it and if someone wants to steal it, they will get it. it all comes down to how much effort and what they are willing to risk to get it. Cars, money, and whatever, can be stolen. For example, this past week, someone at this jobsite stole a flatbar and floodlight from me. They went over to my toolbox and toolbag when I was not looking and got what they wanted. I noticed they were missing only after I was rolling up and they had allready left the site. In business it is called shrinkage and it will be there, probably forever. Business' pass the cost on to the customer and we pay.

 

IIRC, wasn't there a statement that this was to stop it more in Russia than in the U.S.? I say release it and pass the cost onto us. We will pay. would be willing to bet that most of us make a decent wage and have no problem with an increase in the price. This copy protection sounds as though it will configure a cdkey based on our systems(and I bet each of our systems are as different as snowflakes). This sounds like they want to make sure that they are paid for every copy that is d/l. I think that is overkill. We in the LOMAC community are now waiting for this issue to be resolved even though 1.1 is complete.

 

We in the community should be the ones held responsible for passing that frree copy to some cheapskate. Those who get that free copy still have to get a copy of LOMAC, and me personally, would not hand a game over to someone that I am actively playing. Lord know that they will lose or damage it and then I am S.O.L.

 

I am wondering how many copies of 1.1 have walked out of the front doors of ED without this copy protection? How many copies of F.C. are they expecting to lose? Let's assume(I know, I know) that 100 copies are lost to shrinkage, that means $3500.00 in profit is gone. Is that going to make are break ED? If so, which I doubt, adjust the price accordingly and pass the cost on to us. If not, is the cost of paying for this copy protection worth it? Would'nt it be nice to be paid now, instead of another month later. Another month of bills and salaries racking up.

 

Pass the costs onto us, we will pay. If you are the loser who hands this off to your deadbeat, brokea$$ loser of a friend, just remember what goes around comes around.

 

Thanks for reading, -KILSEK

[trashcanman]

ok where to start? I appreciate you're playing devils advocate but theft is theft. Sure people will always steal things if they try hard enough but ED are a business. 100 copies does not = $3500 lost profit it = $3500 lost revenue. Developing software is not a cost free business - programmers are unreasonable people and want to be paid for the work they do to pay their bills and buy food for their families :wink:

 

When you go to buy a car do you object to the fact that you are being charged for door locks, alarms, immobilisers?

 

It's a pity that honest users are inconvenienced by copy protection but to take your approach would mean no more sims, games or other software was ever developed.

 

Just my opinion.

[504MrWolf]

IMHO there is no such thing as copy protection......i dont think there has been a game release since the days if so called 'copy protection' that hasnt been copied, released on the 'scene' or patched, cracked or cdkey'd.

 

Ive personally made a copy of my 1.0 Lockon for backup and it only took a slow read speed and CDClone !

 

They can add StarForce but thats already been hacked and cracked since day one so it wont do any good, copy protection is a waste of money to the DEV's as at the end of the day its only code and code can and willbe cracked.

 

This is the sad truth.

 

Wolfie

[wsoul2k]

The best copy protection is an CD key register like Raven shield its work preaty good

 

The game will be craked to OFF LINE campagin...but the craked version will not run On line

 

just my opinion

[kdittyr]

Wow, this is a really tough situation that the devs are in. They are getting people beating down their door for the release of a product that is, for all intents and purposes, finished. At the same time they are trying to protect their time, effort and digital property. I understand that everyone wants to play the hell out of the game, so do I. In fact, every time that I think about the game I get butterflys in my stomache and don't even want to look at the website for fear that it still isn't up (which it obviously isn't and won't be for a FEW MORE DAYS).

 

Let me ask you this, do you like to play the game? Well, it is obvious that you do because you are moaning about the release taking so long.

 

Would you leave your house all day without locking it up when you left? No. That would be completely stupid. So, why is it that you are asking them to not protect their personal sweat and tears? Give them a break and let them do their work so when it comes out it can be in pretty darn good working order. If you rush them to release the game BEFORE whatever protection is fully incorperated, I am willing to bet, that you would be the first one to scream about how they released a piece of crap game early to appease people like you and not actually fix the problems that they needed to fix.

[KILSEK]

Hi all.

 

It has been a long day backing up files and re-installing winxp(from now on I will leave the shared fragments when I delete a program, like m$ office).

 

I guess my whole point is can ED adjust their price for F.C. to compensate for the loss due to piracy?

 

I do understand that folks want to be paid for their work, I know I do. I have no problems at all with paying for things.

 

Yep you are right, I need to exercise my patience. -KILSEK

[S77th-GOYA]

Has anyone seen or heard of a pirated copy of LOMAC? If you have, please don't post a link. I'm just curious as to whether LOMAC is the kind of software that would even appeal to the warez crowd.

[chennuts]

There are pirated copies of EVERYTHING. LOMAC included. You name it, it's been pirated and is probably still available.

[SimFan]

No problem.

 

The more difficult it gets to crack something, the more challenging it will be to some people to do it.

It's a circle.

I sure won't steal FC (whether I can or not), and I am sure most people here won't either.

The people NOT in any FC forum probably won't BUY the game anyway.

So what it comes down to is this: quite a lot negative publicity for the people deperate to buy the sim/addon.

I don't really see what ED has to gain from going through all this trouble.

Only the real Fans of LO will want any add-on anyway.

As we all know LO is not the kind of game one masters in a couple of hours.

The 'thiefs' are probably enjoying their stolen copy of doom 3 or whatever.

What do we care if or what we have to pay ?

I am pretty sure anyone putting out the addon on the 'net would sure not get any approval from this community.

ED... don't worry.

[leafer]

Has anyone seen or heard of a pirated copy of LOMAC? If you have, please don't post a link. I'm just curious as to whether LOMAC is the kind of software that would even appeal to the warez crowd.

 

YES! There is a place in Bangkok that SELLS pirated copies of games, musics and movies. LOMAC is on the shelve along with iL2: FB and PF, Wings over Vietman and etc.

[ThirdELTPoznan]

Has anyone seen or heard of a pirated copy of LOMAC? If you have, please don't post a link. I'm just curious as to whether LOMAC is the kind of software that would even appeal to the warez crowd.

 

YES! There is a place in Bangkok that SELLS pirated copies of games, musics and movies. LOMAC is on the shelve along with iL2: FB and PF, Wings over Vietman and etc.

 

No problem in getting pirated copies in Poland, also now you can d/l allmost every program if you only have p2p programs. It is the sad true :?

[Gel214th]

I thought that the GameXtream distribution approach was a good one that I posted to the boards a while back for Digital Distribution.

 

It is an encrypted format that would seriously hamper someone pirating the game after downloading it from ED's site. It also makes ED in total control of updating the software, pushing new content etc. They could even have a section where they store and serve Modifications etc. all in one integrated application. It even allows somoene to 'backup' the files to a CD and will utilise CD Key technology.

 

Something like that, works, but often the Key Generator stuff is cracked. If this must first be synced to an online server before the game is allowed online though, then you catch people that have generated keys easily as long as ED maintains a Registration log of CD Key to Paid User from their servers (i.e. EVERYONE must register their copy in order to play online). If it checks for a CD Key in the ED directory and it isn't there next to someones name, then its marked invalid. You can allow a 'grace' period in case ED's authentication servers go down etc. Or you can have the program check randomly or a certain number of days in between etc. to get around the fact that ED's servers may not always be up etc. etc.

 

CD-Rom distribution will naturally have to depend on standard CD Rom copy protection, but that too could utilise the online CD Key registration method and the protection for multiplayer online remains.

 

The only way pirates can get around this, is rewriting the server hooks and the Client hooks so that the client doesn't 'phone home' and neither does the server. These types of servers would be termed 'illegal' servers, that will allow the 'illegal' clients to play. ANd they'd be caught out quite easily in our small community.

 

ED could also release 'patches' that would update the code in some way so that Pirates will need to keep updating the server/client rewrites for each version. Legitimate users won't care , because we want the patches and any game improvements they might bring. And Pirates won't be able to play online because the older version won't be able to play with the newer patched version.

[kdittyr]

It is an encrypted format that would seriously hamper someone pirating the game after downloading it from ED's site. It also makes ED in total control of updating the software...

 

It sounds like a viable option for them, but it might increase their workload, as well. I think that would rule, but for the same reason that you said, it forces them to release patches on a more regular basis.

[SimFan]

Course

 

These schemes seem more complicated than the FC code itself.

- Maybe we could store the code in a golden cage and the CEO could swallow the key ?

- Maybe the death penalty could be installed to deal with hiddeous crimes like

unlocking the code ?

- Maybe the remaining? customers could be given a course on how to deal with the complex copy protection schemes ?

- Maybe anyone succeeding this course would get a post graduate university degree in advanced FC protection engineering ?

(Or maybe ED could even allows us to pay for the game and install it)

Possibilities are endless !

:wink:

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I would wait another month if that is what it takes to get a good copy protection for FC!

 

Every dollar ED looses to pirates is a dollar closer to the end of Lock On nad FC simulators.

 

And none of us wants that to happen!

[Revvin]

I'll buy online as long as it gives me the option to back up the files to CD/DVD. I won't buy any further installments of Live For Speed while it still counts the number of installs you do so would'nt want to see a similar system used for Flaming Cliffs. Most copy protection is cracked within days, I'd love to see ED find a way to protect their product but not at the expense of the honest players who will gladly pay for this add-on.

[KILSEK]

Hi all.

 

Question: If I give away an original (not a copy) game(I.E. Sid Meiers Simgolf) that I purchased because I no longer play it, is that piracy? I admit that I did that and did not think of it as piracy.

 

I would still like an answer/feedback to the point of my post. Can ED increase their price for F.C. to compensate for the shrinkage? I am thinking not because there is no number to accurately represent the amount of theft that will occur. Oh well, still remaining patient. :) -KILSEK

[ARM505]

I bought Half Life 2 (for the single player game only) in the mistaken belief that it would not be cracked in a hurry. Hah! It was soon on the shelves of the local pirate-copy shop, no problems, cheaper AND MORE IMPORTANTLY faster and easier to install!

 

I still believe that a CD key that prevents online play is the simplest and most convenient way for all involved. You WILL NOT stop people copying it if they invest enough time and effort into it.

[S77th-Paralyzer]

I would wait another month if that is what it takes to get a good copy protection for FC!

 

Every dollar ED looses to pirates is a dollar closer to the end of Lock On nad FC simulators.

 

And none of us wants that to happen!

 

Agreed!

[Revvin]

It seems they have releaxed the license thing a little with LFS, they give you new unlock codes each month it seems, a lot fairer perhaps though what would happen to games like this if LFS or ED went out of business where would we get unlock codes then?

[Skywall23]

Has anyone seen or heard of a pirated copy of LOMAC? If you have, please don't post a link. I'm just curious as to whether LOMAC is the kind of software that would even appeal to the warez crowd.

 

YES! There is a place in Bangkok that SELLS pirated copies of games, musics and movies. LOMAC is on the shelve along with iL2: FB and PF, Wings over Vietman and etc.

 

No problem in getting pirated copies in Poland, also now you can d/l allmost every program if you only have p2p programs. It is the sad true :?

 

Same here in Portugal. Already had consequences, like the delay of X-Box live, due to high piracy. P2P programs, copied material, you name it. Piracy rules here, and worst, it is starting to be a "normal" thing. :shock:

[Groove]

As Lomac has a relatively small buying crowd they should watermark every copy you download. And as soon as there is a copy in P2P network you know who purchased it and shared it.

 

StarForce is okay as a CP if you want to sell your product on a wide customer range. It prevents beying cracked for some weeks. And thats what counts in this business. But LockOn 1.1 dont need any protection.

 

ED shouldnt pay StarForce for any licenses. Instead of this save your money...

[Ice]

I bought Half Life 2 (for the single player game only) in the mistaken belief that it would not be cracked in a hurry. Hah! It was soon on the shelves of the local pirate-copy shop, no problems, cheaper AND MORE IMPORTANTLY faster and easier to install!

 

I still believe that a CD key that prevents online play is the simplest and most convenient way for all involved. You WILL NOT stop people copying it if they invest enough time and effort into it.

 

My understandingis that HL2 cannot be cracked to play ONLINE and for lomac that's what would be most important