Startup F16 - GPS

[spidierox]

Hi everyone, 

 I think 2 maybe 3 updates ago we needed to change the startup procedure:

you had to engage the GPS and wait a while (4 min I believe) then you saw the mseesage GPS system before starting the alignment.

Is this still the case ? (because I didn't get the GPS anymore on the DED and could have a (fast) alignment tho... )

(I saw "Tuning the IFA alignment - IFA with GPS velocity update fix" in the release notes but no clue what it means, and what is fixed)

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by spidierox

[Jel]

Haven´t seen this in a while, not doing IFA that often Only thing i noticed is that i have to turn on DL and MIDS after alignment is complete, even so the manual says otherwise - doing so before often ends up in my own Datalink not functioning.

Maybe a bug ?

Also when having trouble with GPS, switching it off and on again usually works..

[RyanR]

Funny how DCS makes us all superstitious with keeping the Datalink happy.

The voodoo I follow is to align the INS first to the stored heading, then GPS, DL, and MIDS.

-Ryan

[Furiz]

What I do is STOR HDG then GPS wait for it to align and then MIDS LVT to ON, after that LIST - ENTER (DLNK) - any number on ICP to set it to ON, and it works fine.

[RyanR]

52 minutes ago, Furiz said:

What I do is STOR HDG then GPS wait for it to align and then MIDS LVT to ON, after that LIST - ENTER (DLNK) - any number on ICP to set it to ON, and it works fine.

I used to do that, too! They magically fixed this bug with the March(?) update.

-Ryan

[Jel]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb RyanR:

I used to do that, too! They magically fixed this bug with the March(?) update.

-Ryan

worth testing i guess. Haven´t entered the office yet since the patch dropped. Any information in the changelog ?

[spidierox]

Maybe someone from ED can provide the correct procedure to follow ? 

[Lord Vader]

20 hours ago, spidierox said:

Hi everyone, 

 I think 2 maybe 3 updates ago we needed to change the startup procedure:

you had to engage the GPS and wait a while (4 min I believe) then you saw the mseesage GPS system before starting the alignment.

Is this still the case ? (because I didn't get the GPS anymore on the DED and could have a (fast) alignment tho... )

(I saw "Tuning the IFA alignment - IFA with GPS velocity update fix" in the release notes but no clue what it means, and what is fixed)

Hey @spidierox and repliers.

So, with the INS update, you are not required to have GPS right away, so I am not sure where you read you needed GPS Time to be available for that, but now you know. INS can perfectly align itself on it's own if GPS isn't available right away or at all. 

Now, concerning the GPS initialization, It now takes only 1 minute to perform. When it is available it is then used by the Kalman filter for the proper corrections in aircraft positioning. But one system is independent from the other.

Concerning MIDS, the correct procedure is still to turn it on after, and only after, you the "GPS" symbology on the TIME DED page. If you do it before that, the system will not be able to update Datalink information, since it's using incorrect data. I think you are mixing this procedure with INS alignment.

Please consider that now we also have a GPS satellite and antenna obscuring simulation. So, if you are, for example, inside an hangar, it is perfectly possible to not have "GPS" on the TIME DED page right away. It's even possible you have no satellites over the horizon, even with the hangar door open, so you'll not be able to get proper GPS Time. That is why it is advisable to only turn on the GPS switch (and later MIDS) when you exit the hangar. 

Finally, regarding the IFA item, that was a small velocity error being introduced when it was performed, the SPI position was rapidly degrading after it was done. Now it is fixed. 

In the near future, we plan to release some more information regarding the new INS procedure that will make this all a bit more "interactive". For now, the correct procedures can be found here: 

 

[Jel]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lord Vader:

Concerning MIDS, the correct procedure is still to turn it on after, and only after, you the "GPS" symbology on the TIME DED page. If you do it before that, the system will not be able to update Datalink information, since it's using incorrect data. 

 

 

 

Then the manual is kind of misleading

null

[Lord Vader]

The DCS: Viper Early Access Manual will be revised in the near future to include a lot of items that have been refined over time.

This is a very extensive work to do, that's why it's taking a bit longer than expected. It's also more logical to wait until all major changes are done. 

Until then, please visit the Viper Mini Updates section linked above for the latest and most accurate procedures.

[RyanR]

 

On 4/17/2024 at 9:06 AM, Lord Vader said:

The DCS: Viper Early Access Manual will be revised in the near future to include a lot of items that have been refined over time.

This is a very extensive work to do, that's why it's taking a bit longer than expected. It's also more logical to wait until all major changes are done. 

Until then, please visit the Viper Mini Updates section linked above for the latest and most accurate procedures.

 

Good gravy. Why do we have a changelog and mini-updates, and however many other sources of info?

ED needs a single, tidy changelog/dialog to inform the community of what is done, how it affects the user, and what problems may exist, and directions that ED is taking the feature towards the update?

There are so many angry posts in the F-16 forum. If ED just communicated *effectively*, it would solve 99% of the problems. You can't save all of this for some user manual that's totally BVR. If we knew now what ED already knows, everyone would become happy.... at least those of us who can appreciate how hard it is to build the avionics and simulate technology that's at least gotta be partially classified.

Better comms!

-Ryan

 

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, RyanR said:

 

 

Good gravy. Why do we have a changelog and mini-updates, and however many other sources of info?

 

The changelog is for the info released in the patches for all products, the mini-update for the F-16 is for the important stuff that needs to be addressed and passed to customers ASAP even before its added to the manual. If we add yet another, singular source we will yet again miss even more people. We are pretty happy how its working now, help others find these sources if you see them missing them. Thanks. 

[Nealius]

My stored heading alignment will do a standard slow alignment when I leave GPS off. My flow is to flip all avionics switches on, stored align heading, MIDS off until alignment complete. 

[RyanR]

16 hours ago, Nealius said:

My stored heading alignment will do a standard slow alignment when I leave GPS off. My flow is to flip all avionics switches on, stored align heading, MIDS off until alignment complete. 

 

Has the jet moved at all? The normal alignment is super slow. The stored with GPS/DL/MIDS of is faster..... not super fast, but it gives you time to set up the weapons and align the HMCS, etc.

-Ryan

[Sinclair_76]

On 4/18/2024 at 6:56 PM, RyanR said:

 

 

Good gravy. Why do we have a changelog and mini-updates, and however many other sources of info?

ED needs a single, tidy changelog/dialog to inform the community of what is done, how it affects the user, and what problems may exist, and directions that ED is taking the feature towards the update?

There are so many angry posts in the F-16 forum. If ED just communicated *effectively*, it would solve 99% of the problems. You can't save all of this for some user manual that's totally BVR. If we knew now what ED already knows, everyone would become happy.... at least those of us who can appreciate how hard it is to build the avionics and simulate technology that's at least gotta be partially classified.

Better comms!

-Ryan

 

Eagle Dynamics does not only replicate accurate aircraft systems but they accurately replicate the bureaucracy and information management involved in operating aircraft as well.  

Not even joking btw. 

In both my flying jobs Airforce (long time ago) and airline, this is a huge problem. On my finiflight I busted a regulation, which I didn't know existed;

Wing Operations briefed it when I was deployed

they forgot to to update the local area folder

they forgot to update the master maps, and remove old out of date maps from the NAV room. After landing I normally shred my maps but somehow I held on to it for CYA purposes. When the investigation started I could objectively show that the info on the maps, provided by the nav department, was outdated.

than they tried to pin it on me that I didn't crosscheck the information with the master navigation manual, of which there is only one, located  at wing ops. But in the end wing ops couldn't find the regulation requiring me to verify that manual in their SOP, so the fined the daily operations officer instead. 

Happy days, after 15 years of Airforce my CYA fu is as honed as my flying skills.

Edited April 28, 2024 by Sinclair_76

[Nealius]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:13 AM, RyanR said:

Has the jet moved at all? The normal alignment is super slow. The stored with GPS/DL/MIDS of is faster..... not super fast, but it gives you time to set up the weapons and align the HMCS, etc.

No movement. I would assume stored would be fast even without GPS (e.g. Tomcat, M2000, etc.) but that's apparently not how it works in the DCS Viper.

[Trespasser]

Quote

Please consider that now we also have a GPS satellite and antenna obscuring simulation. So, if you are, for example, inside an hangar, it is perfectly possible to not have "GPS" on the TIME DED page right away. It's even possible you have no satellites over the horizon, even with the hangar door open, so you'll not be able to get proper GPS Time. That is why it is advisable to only turn on the GPS switch (and later MIDS) when you exit the hangar. 

LOL, exiting the hanger, waiting a min got it working. TY