investigating F16 TGP slewing away and HAD cant select targets

[Leichtester]

Hey,

Today, I played with the F16 Viper on a multiplayer server with Skynet. I used the HTS/HAD to locate some targets. My first target was an SA-11, so I selected it on the HAD page. I launched a HARM missile, and the SA-11 went offline. Shortly after, the SA-11 shut down and disappeared from the HAD, along with the cursor. I pressed TMS down, and the cursor reappeared from the old SA-11 position, but I couldn't select anything anymore. Additionally, the TGP slewed to a position somewhere far away (to the coast, I think somewhere near my spawn location). On the TGP, I pressed TMS Down/CZ, and after a few seconds, it slewed back to the original location. This kept happening for the rest of the flight, and I tried to deal with it. I've attached a track; it's a little long but should be okay. I think the way the SA-11 was shut down caused the problem. I believe the HAD didn't like it when the SA-11 disappeared while I still had it selected, and the SPI was constantly resetting to a random position.

I hope you can help. This isn't the first time I've run into this problem, and I've tried to explain it as best as I can, but my English skills aren't perfect.

Thanks!

EDIT: My track has 64 KB but it says I cant upload because 50MB is the limit? I have a drive link, but I understand that you may not be able to open it. Can I send it other ways?

Edited April 17 by Leichtester
Attached File

[rob10]

2 hours ago, Leichtester said:

EDIT: My track has 64 KB but it says I cant upload because 50MB is the limit? I have a drive link, but I understand that you may not be able to open it. Can I send it other ways? Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1E0o9rj95_wUTnqUBc82waflnPCia10Kt?usp=sharing

Have you uploaded a bunch of stuff previously?  That sounds like it might be the forum limit and you may need to delete some previous uploads.  Check in your profile under attachments and see if you're hitting that.

[Furiz]

10 hours ago, Leichtester said:

My track has 64 KB

64MB btw,

my DCS crashed trying to open.

edit:

now I cant open my DCS:

 

 

 

remove that file so no one else gets damaged.

Edited April 17 by Furiz

[Lord Vader]

Hi @Leichtester

Unfortunately, servers that rely heavily on scripts often create issues we cannot replay correctly. It could be the case here.

Given that your shared track is unusable, we ask that you try to reproduce it in a simple mission, trying to create the same situation and record a proper track (please try to share just the trk file). 

Thanks.

[Hofftari]

Hi,

I can share a track of this behaviour since I noticed it too and thought to save it for a bug report, but seeing as there is a topic about this I can attach it in here.

From what I've noticed, the TGP drifts in some way related to the aspect between your aircraft and the markpoint/steerpoint. I.e if your nose is pointing towards the right of the steerpoint, the TGP drifts towards the right; If your nose is pointing upwards, then the TGP drifts upwards, etc. I have demonstrated that too in my saved track.

 

It seems also like the saved markpoints suffer from this too, so if you save a markpoint, do some maneuvers and then do a CZ on your saved markpoint, the TGP suddenly points to another coordinate, sometimes 10-20 meters off from your markpoint.

F-16C TGP-bug 2.trk

[Agim]

I had the same issue yestersay in mission 8 of Wild Weasels campaign. Unfortunately I didnt save the track. Perhaps next time.

[Leichtester]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Furiz:

64MB btw,

my DCS crashed trying to open.

edit:

now I cant open my DCS:

 

 

 

remove that file so no one else gets damaged.

 

Sorry, I haven't tested the trk my self

@Lord Vader thanks I will try.

[Silver_]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:25 PM, Leichtester said:

Hey,

Today, I played with the F16 Viper on a multiplayer server with Skynet. I used the HTS/HAD to locate some targets. My first target was an SA-11, so I selected it on the HAD page. I launched a HARM missile, and the SA-11 went offline. Shortly after, the SA-11 shut down and disappeared from the HAD, along with the cursor. I pressed TMS down, and the cursor reappeared from the old SA-11 position, but I couldn't select anything anymore. Additionally, the TGP slewed to a position somewhere far away (to the coast, I think somewhere near my spawn location). On the TGP, I pressed TMS Down/CZ, and after a few seconds, it slewed back to the original location. This kept happening for the rest of the flight, and I tried to deal with it. I've attached a track; it's a little long but should be okay. I think the way the SA-11 was shut down caused the problem. I believe the HAD didn't like it when the SA-11 disappeared while I still had it selected, and the SPI was constantly resetting to a random position.

I hope you can help. This isn't the first time I've run into this problem, and I've tried to explain it as best as I can, but my English skills aren't perfect.

Thanks!

EDIT: My track has 64 KB but it says I cant upload because 50MB is the limit? I have a drive link, but I understand that you may not be able to open it. Can I send it other ways?

 

That same thing happened to me too.

[Lord Vader]

21 hours ago, Hofftari said:

Hi,

I can share a track of this behaviour since I noticed it too and thought to save it for a bug report, but seeing as there is a topic about this I can attach it in here.

From what I've noticed, the TGP drifts in some way related to the aspect between your aircraft and the markpoint/steerpoint. I.e if your nose is pointing towards the right of the steerpoint, the TGP drifts towards the right; If your nose is pointing upwards, then the TGP drifts upwards, etc. I have demonstrated that too in my saved track.

 

It seems also like the saved markpoints suffer from this too, so if you save a markpoint, do some maneuvers and then do a CZ on your saved markpoint, the TGP suddenly points to another coordinate, sometimes 10-20 meters off from your markpoint.

F-16C TGP-bug 2.trk 7.04 MB · 3 downloads

This seems a bit unrelated to the original post.

In any case, I looked at your track and could see what you mention. However, when I took control of the aircraft, I couldn't reproduce this alleged drift, either in area track, point track, pressing Cursor Zero or cycling steerpoints. I am unsure what could be causing your drifting, perhaps your TDC axis requires some tuning, calibration or sensitivity adjustment. 

[Oceandar]

Tgp drifting ? Yeah I had it too. My tdc axis is fine btw.

[BIGNEWY]

Please include short track replays if you see an issue so we can try to reproduce. 

I have tried and have been unable so far. We will continue to try. 

thank you

[Leichtester]

@BIGNEWY and @Lord Vader, I tried it, and I couldn't reproduce it by myself in SP. However, it reappeared on the same server today. The bug definitely appears when you are able to select a SAM and then remove it from the HAD. This is how you can reproduce it. But I don't know how to get this to work in SP. Thanks!

 

EDIT: The problem in SP is that the targets stay on the HAD even when the SAM is offline. I also tried to open my Track but DCS crashed trying to do so.

Edited April 18 by Leichtester

[Furiz]

It might be something with Skynet, I had it happen some time ago but I also couldn't reproduce in SP.

I think whats causing the problem is that the emitter, that is yellow colored or red, disappears from HAD completely when it shuts down, and with it HAD cursor disappers. What should happen is that it should turn green.

[JTFF - Raph]

@BIGNEWY

Hello,

 

I had the bug one hour ago. What I noticed.
Setup : no mods, flying on Flashpoint EU with satnav.

I have a track but it is to heavy for forums restrictions, feel free to download it with this link : https://wormhole.app/1pM4q#eQDAn5dSaIHKH4clwE_SXA
I understand if you do not trust external file uploads but I have no choice here ^^

The file will be available during 24 hours.

Behavior observed :

- Lost ability to lock SAMS with the Harm Attack Display

- After selecting a steerpoint and doing a cursor zero with TGP, the sensor is correctly pointing towards it, but after a couple seconds  it always points towards BULLSEYE

- All my navigation system was broken and even if I selected any steerpoint every sensors where pointing towards BULLSEYE

- One the HSD I could see filled selected steerpoint but the HSD cross was stuck on the BULLSEYE, also the HUD was displaying wrong informations (e.g. BULLSEYE range infomations towards another steerpoint)

- On the HAD I displayed SEAD coordinates on DED and they where also stuck on BULLSEYE coords

What I tested :

- Checked if it was an INS drift or something bound to Satnav, but it seemed to be fine (tought I had a huge delta with estimated position at first)

- Checked steerpoints coordinates

- Tried to disable the BULLSEYE on stp 25

- Tried to cycle A/G A/A and NAV modes

- Tried to switch TGP to standby to see if it wasn't "slaving" all my sensors by error

- Tried to cycle between POS and HAS modes

- Tried to cycle steerpoints from C&I page or HSD

Results :

- Unable to resolve in flight with previous manipulations

How to reproduce :

Hard to reproduce, but I destroyed an SA-2 site before it happened, maybe as in SP it could come from HAD. Also BULLSEYE or TGP could create shenanigans on top of an HAD issue.

I was cycling between all SAM site on HAD page when the problems started.

Hope it helps a little, this bug is really blocking if it happens during flight.

Good day

Edited April 21 by JTFF - Raph

[Leichtester]

@BIGNEWY

Hello,
 
I had the bug one hour ago. What I noticed.
Setup : no mods, flying on Flashpoint EU with satnav.

I have a track but it is to heavy for forums restrictions, feel free to download it with this link : https://wormhole.app/1pM4q#eQDAn5dSaIHKH4clwE_SXA
I understand if you do not trust external file uploads but I have no choice here ^^
The file will be available during 24 hours.

Behavior observed :

- Lost ability to lock SAMS with the Harm Attack Display
- After selecting a steerpoint and doing a cursor zero with TGP, the sensor is correctly pointing towards it, but after a couple seconds  it always points towards BULLSEYE
- All my navigation system was broken and even if I selected any steerpoint every sensors where pointing towards BULLSEYE
- One the HSD I could see filled selected steerpoint but the HSD cross was stuck on the BULLSEYE, also the HUD was displaying wrong informations (e.g. BULLSEYE range infomations towards another steerpoint)
- On the HAD I displayed SEAD coordinates on DED and they where also stuck on BULLSEYE coords
What I tested :
- Checked if it was an INS drift or something bound to Satnav, but it seemed to be fine (tought I had a huge delta with estimated position at first)
- Checked steerpoints coordinates
- Tried to disable the BULLSEYE on stp 25
- Tried to cycle A/G A/A and NAV modes
- Tried to switch TGP to standby to see if it wasn't "slaving" all my sensors by error
- Tried to cycle between POS and HAS modes
- Tried to cycle steerpoints from C&I page or HSD

Results :

- Unable to resolve in flight with previous manipulations

How to reproduce :

Hard to reproduce, but I destroyed an SA-2 site before it happened, maybe as in SP it could come from HAD. Also BULLSEYE or TGP could create shenanigans on top of an HAD issue.
I was cycling between all SAM site on HAD page when the problems started.


Hope it helps a little, this bug is really blocking if it happens during flight.

Good day

Thanks a lot. This is exactly what I had in the original post. I had exactly the same behavior, and in the aftermath, I realized it was slewing to the bullseye. I am pretty sure it was a similar, if not the same, reason this happened.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

I will ask our MP team to check for it also 

thank you 

[falcon_120]

Same behavior related to the HAD happened to me some minutes ago. After SAM disappeared from the HAD the cursor dissapeared also. TMS down make the cursor reappear but not possible to TMS up anything after that on the HAD.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Leichtester]

Am 27.4.2024 um 14:03 schrieb falcon_120:

Same behavior related to the HAD happened to me some minutes ago. After SAM disappeared from the HAD the cursor dissapeared also. TMS down make the cursor reappear but not possible to TMS up anything after that on the HAD.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

Exactly the same