Nose down when braking

[Flasher]

Since the last update :

* the plane everytime you brake, even smoothly has a nose down  attitude, and this is completly unrealistic, it was better before ...

* This plane is bouncing too  much when landing even if you do a kiss=> unrealistic..

[Mr_sukebe]

It’s called suspension.  Not any different to what you have in car, though in an aircraft, it’s having to deal with much more weight and higher shock loads.

As it happens, I was out in my Mustang today, and I thought the bounciness was very cool.  We’ll get used to it

[SMH]

I don't rightly know but I do agree that it seems way too soft on the suspension now. They're designed to absorb shock on landing so should be quite stiff during normal taxiing/braking, I'd think.

I do like the new suspension though, just needs a bit more stiffness. It's good in the P-47.

[Doughguy]

 

Please observe how much the nose wobbles.

 

[Bowie]

1 hour ago, Doughguy said:

Please observe how much the nose wobbles.

 

Considerably firmer than the new LG physics.

 

 

Bowie

[Nealius]

There's definitely something a bit too sensitive about the tipping when applying even a little brake pressure. Differential braking has become more challenging than in any other warbird, Spitfire included. 

[Slippa]

They’ve done it again. It’s laughable.

I’ve flown the Mustang every day since the update and while you can still take off and land in it you can’t taxi and use the brakes sensibly any more.

Who’s signing this off? It’s unserviceable as it is. I’ve adjusted curves a few times in an attempt at softening the brakes but it’s futile. They’ve buggered it.

The Jug’s busted too but I almost like it. Maybe the weight of the Jug helps? It’s not as silly as it is in the Pony.

I’m not happy. Not a bit. Not as it stands. They’ve completely wrecked the Mossie on the ground for me, forget about immersion or realism, I may as well be flying a dodgy arcade game. Better once we’re in the air but still. Now it’s the Pony too so I’m two down on my already meagre diet of props.

Bring back Beta? Bring back testing? 

Whoever’s responsible for this mess needs having a word with. They’re going through my collection of lovelies ‘improving’ them and it’s downright destructive.

I’ve never seen anything behave like it IRL (nor has anyone) and if I did it’d be grounded, it’s bloody ridiculous.

Test it ffs. Who’s signing off this tosh? It’s like someone’s been authorised to hack into my warbird hangar and screw them all up. Are we expected to put up with months of rolling out some fools brainwave while we post bug reports? Sod that. Look how long it’s taking for someone to wake up and undo the damage done to the Mossie, and they’re still snoozing. Worse, the lunatic ‘mechanic’ is left working his way through the hangar. Somebody take the spanners away.

The mind boggles, Biggles.

[Art-J]

I'm a bit puzzled by these brake-related posts. Granted, after the updates I only did one mission with full taxi, takeoff, landing and taxi back to apron in payware version of Mustang, but haven't noticed any brake sensitivity differences compared to "old times" and I use full linear setting on my MFG crosswind toe brakes (have been thinking about dialing in some curves for years, but too lazy to do it it seems ). Not saying there aren't any differences, 'cause you're not the only person reporting the issue but I haven't experienced anything THAT noticeable.

Are you sure you haven't tweaked the curves "wrong way" and made them more sensitive? Or maybe the game has them fudged - what happens if you go full linear for a test?

[Holbeach]

My toe brakes are unusable. They come on at about 50% which is close to nose over damage.

So far I've been unable to adjust the input curves, but I'll keep trying.

No luck with the axis tune.

Control panel OK.

The only way I can make this work is to turn down the brake power in the FM. (But I have a strict 'no FM diddling' policy for all games).

Back to the hanger you go m'lad.

..

Edited April 21 by Holbeach

[Slippa]

I tried changing the axis tuning last night, moving it in units of ten both plus and minus. I can’t make it any better.

I’m using MFGs too and even the slightest touch of brake behaves like I’m slamming the pedal down in the Pony. It reacts with an odd bounce that’s exaggerated and unrealistic. I wasn’t in the best of moods when I posted yesterday and when I tried flying it last night I thought maybe I’d been a bit harsh but it really isn’t great. 

It’s usable avoiding brake use which is a bit of a joke when trying to land and roll out. Pretty gutted with the way things are going with our props lately. 

[kablamoman]

@Slippa,  I’ve never had any curves on my toe brake axes and still don’t after the update, and I’ve not had any problems — have you tried running MFG axis calibration tool?

[Slippa]

I haven’t seen the MFG software for ages, no. I haven’t needed to as everything’s been ok with them. Cheers for the thought though.

When I start learning a module I’ll usually check chucks guides (Thanks Chuck) to see if I like the bindings. They’re usually pretty sensible so I’ll set curves etc and try them out then adjust if I need to. I’ve got every prop, jet and heli I have all set up and once they’re sorted out I don’t touch anything. The only time I do is, well, when the magic tinkerers get busy and bugger something up for me.

Flying for a couple of hours earlier, pretty much every flight in the Pony. I tried messing with the settings but ended up putting everything back to where it usually is because whatever I did wouldn’t improve it any. By the end of it I’d taken to lining it up barely using any brakes. Landings are hairy and need a long (and bouncy) rollout then the smallest nudge of a big toe at the last minute. Still wants to bounce though. 

I tested out repairing, different loadouts of fuel and ammo, taking off, landing etc and at one point I just sat with the engine running watching other pilots taxi by in their mustangs. One came by me and was bouncing around like an inflatable. My engine died and when I restarted it I watched the airframe bounce and wobble about. I realise there’s plenty of vibration and some movement on startup in the real thing but this bouncy suspension idea needs dialling back by a long way for me.

I’m dreading the next update as I can still be pleased with my Spit at the minute. I’m gonna have to remember not to update DCS if and when it wants to because if this spreads to my Spit I’ll be well gutted. About the only thing I can feel positive about this is that I’m not reading hundreds of other posts from people having the same trouble. Maybe it’s effecting me more than others? I’ve seen Mustangs taxi plenty of times IRL, on bumpy grass strips as well and I’ve never seen one bounce like this. Definitely never seen them hopping their tailwheel just by braking either.

Thankfully once in the air it’s still as great to fly.

 

[Nealius]

Just for crowd sourcing info, I'm running Saitek Pros, no curves on the toe brake axis for any aircraft in the entire game, and the Mustang is the only one I'm finding brakes to be overly sensitive with. 

[Holbeach]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:08 AM, Holbeach said:

My toe brakes are unusable. They come on at about 50% which is close to nose over damage.

So far I've been unable to adjust the input curves, but I'll keep trying.

No luck with the axis tune.

Control panel OK.

The only way I can make this work is to turn down the brake power in the FM.

Back to the hanger you go m'lad.

..

 

Ok. I've got a work round.

Brakes still come on instantly to 50%, but with Saturation Y at 62% on a slider I can now use the brakes without breaking my nose.

I have'nt flown the Mustang for many years, so it's off to Eastchurch to see how high the pony jumps.

Luckily the gear horn sounded on very short finals, which avoided an embarrassment, but apart from that the landing was straightforward and much easier than the Mosquito.

The wheel animation also needs sorting, as reported.

Time for some circuit practice.

Update: 62 was still too much braking power, so I've reduced it to 50 Sat Y.  

Full braking is available without a broken prop and rollout steering is easier.

..

Edited April 21 by Holbeach

[Terry Dactil]

OK. We had a similar problem with savage brakes on the Mosquito in the early days.

You can fix it with this mod ...

Go to

<Your DCS program location> Mods > aircraft > P-51D > FM > FMOptions.lua

Reduce the value in line 15. (Use Notepad++)

I set it to 3000 and can apply full brakes without nosing over.

Edited April 20 by Terry Dactil

[Nealius]

Reminds me of the pitch trim speed issue we had on the Mossie as well.

[Holbeach]

Manual says, don't do a stall landing at this weight, (70% fuel), but with the new squidgy legs it works out quite well and means no bouncing and a straight rollout.

 

 

 

 

..

Edited April 21 by Holbeach

[SMH]

This is ridiculous. It's the Huey FM "fix" all over again. They spent literally years fine tuning these flight models, then someone comes along and unilaterally "fixes" it in one update cycle with no justification and no demand from the community.

They did say it was a "work in progress", but then they said that about the new clouds too and we've been stuck with them in the exact same half-baked way they were released for the last 3 years.

P.S. I think there might be something wrong with the tailwheel modeling too. It seems to skid (makes a skidding sound) and stick, even when the stick is forward of center. This might explain why so many of us are suddenly having trouble taxiing with toe brakes where before we were experts at it. 

Edited April 21 by SMH

[Slippa]

Nice one Holbeach, I’ll try those tunings when I get back on it. Cheers TerryDactil too, if ‘plan A’ doesn’t work I’ll try your lua thing out. I’ve yet to mess about with all that but it’s looking like I might have to have a look soon.

9 hours ago, SMH said:

This is ridiculous. It's the Huey FM "fix" all over again. They spent literally years fine tuning these flight models, then someone comes along and unilaterally "fixes" it in one update cycle with no justification and no demand from the community.

Exactly how I feel. It’s not as if there were threads of complaints about any of them either. I get that everything’s supposed to be improving and new tech gets implemented but it just doesn’t seem to be introduced properly. It’s brutally different and not entirely better to put it mildly. Having said that, I flew about on a training server earlier and landed it really well (for a change). Not wanting to ruin the fun I didn’t even think about braking. I rolled out almost to the fence before easing round, just with the rudder and prop.

Someone else was flying another pony and when I died I started watching them as they were obviously practicing circuits and bumps. Whoever they were they had it sussed. I watched him come in a few times and make at least two landings that looked almost perfect to me. I saw him jolt as he must’ve tapped a brake but he had it sorted out. I felt I’d been taught a lesson that it could be done but we’ve definitely gotta soften those brakes up a bit and this bounce is just odd.

I’m all for having a realistic suspension but something needs toning down. Looking forward to trying out these ‘community fixes’, well done all. 

[SMH]

I don't think it's the brake strength (which, yes, could be addressed with curves but I've kept mine linear). I think the oleo strut shocks are too soft. So the strut is collapsing easier than it should.

And I also think the tailwheel is modeling castering incorrectly when the stick is forward (though the visual model seems to show it is - and the suspension in the tailwheel I don't think I remember seeing before but it looks quite nice now). It sounds like it's trying to tell me something is skidding when I'm taxiing at low speed with the stick forward and one brake partially depressed to perform a tight turn. The tailwheel shouldn't skid in that case, it should caster, freewheeling around completely if need be.

Oh and one more, with the tailwheel locked to the rudder (stick back) it doesn't seem to have as much steering authority as it did before. So that gives you even more reason to have to use the brakes. 

Edited April 22 by SMH

[Nirvi]

Lots of text, but maybe a track would be more helpful? 

[Holbeach]

3 hours ago, SMH said:

I don't think it's the brake strength (which, yes, could be addressed with curves but I've kept mine linear). I think the oleo strut shocks are too soft. So the strut is collapsing easier than it should.



Oh and one more, with the tailwheel locked to the rudder (stick back) it doesn't seem to have as much steering authority as it did before. So that gives you even more reason to have to use the brakes. 

 

Some of us have a stuation where the brakes come on instantly to 50%, which causes prop damage and is therefore unusable. You don't seem to have this problem.

The tailwheel should have 6 deg max from centre, (which isn't much), and is only meant for near straight running with the stick pulled back.

..

[Holbeach]

5 hours ago, Slippa said:

Nice one Holbeach, I’ll try those tunings when I get back on it. Cheers TerryDactil too, if ‘plan A’ doesn’t work I’ll try your lua thing out. I’ve yet to mess about with all that but it’s looking like I might have to have a look soon.

E. 

Either of these will work, but the axis tune doesn't break my golden rule.

Neither of them will alter the 50% instant application of brakes, but with this reduction in power, it doesn't matter any more

..

 

[motoadve]

Struts definitely feel like they need some more nitrogen in them.

Too mushy when taxing the airplane.

Brakes are sensitive too.

[Holbeach]

2 hours ago, motoadve said:

Struts definitely feel like they need some more nitrogen in them.

Too mushy when taxing the airplane.

Brakes are sensitive too.

High pressure air and hydraulic oil.

They feel like an old American car of the same era, on springs and no dampers.

..