New "Flaming Cliffs 2024" aircraft questions (F-5E, F-86, Mig-15)

[cfrag]

ED just released in an announcement (here) that there will be a "Flaming Cliffs 2024" coming soon, which adds the F-5E, F-86F and Mig-15bis. 

This is fine for me, and as a mission designer, I have some questions:

• Are these the existing modules, re-packaged for FC3 or will these modules be FC-ized with simplified cockpit?
• More importantly, if they are different, will they have different representations in Mission Editor? Example: today we have the A-10A (FC) and two A-10C to choose from. Will there be separate FC 2024 F-5E, F-86F and Mig-15bis? This could really throw a spanner in my missions.

 

[ricktoberfest]

Is this what happened to MAC?

[mastershotgun]

Hello ED,

If someone owns the FC3 and all 3 full fidelity modules of the F-5E, F-86 and Mig-15 what he will gain by buying the FC2024? Are there any new additions/modes/weapons etc.? Is it worthy? Thank you.

[Flogger23m]

Most likely there will be something to differentiate them in the mission editor. F-5E, F-5E (FC) or something. So for old missions, just update them and copy/paste the F-5E flight and change it from F-5E to F-5E (FC). They might do something else though, where if you own F-5E or F-5E FC, it will auto detect which you have so you don't need to place both in a mission. And if you have both, when you select it, you will have an option likely once you hit "Briefing" or whatever the spawn button is.

At $9.99 I will buy the upgrade although I have little interest in the F-5 and almost zero in the F-86 and MIG-15. But at that price I'll probably fly around enough to be amused given the price.

If some third parties start doing other FC aircraft based on the planes we have in game I'd certainly be interested. If someone took the Su-27 or MIG-29 and used them as the basis for an Su-27SM2, modernized J-11, or MIG-29SMT I'd be very interested in buying those. I doubt such variants can be done as a full fidelity module. And remember, even the upcoming Eurofighter isn't based off of a real variant but rather a "guesstimation" and combination of various Eurofighters sub variants.

 

[cfrag]

30 minutes ago, Flogger23m said:

So for old missions, just update them and copy/paste the F-5E flight and change it from F-5E to F-5E (FC).

My apologies for being unclear. I usually create missions for all modules, so anyone can play them. Unfortunately, this can lead to airfields running out of parking space. Updating all missions to add the FC versions may be a bit tiresome. 

32 minutes ago, Flogger23m said:

At $9.99 I will buy the upgrade although I have little interest in the F-5 and almost zero in the F-86 and MIG-15.

I probably too (if they are different modules - I already own all three of them). The Tiger in particular is a fun module.

[XCNuse]

1. Based on the video ED just updloaded; the cockpits and textures are exactly the same as the FF modules currently available.

2. Yes; they are unique airframes that require unique spawn locations.

So if you want 4 player capability for the F5E for example, and also want to deal with the FC owners; you need to take up 8 parking slots.

 

 

[Qcumber]

53 minutes ago, cfrag said:

The Tiger in particular is a fun module.

It's a great module. It's the jet version of a K4. Except the K4 wings don't fall off if you handle it wrong. 

[Ruger357]

I guess I am at a loss here.  I already own FC3 and 2 of the 3 list airframe additions.  I got free FC3 graphics update as well.  Tell me why I should add another $10 into something I already have, and not put it towards a piece of the Afghanistan map?  I will be in the F-4 timeout corner waiting on the reply.

[Cab]

5 minutes ago, Ruger357 said:

I guess I am at a loss here.  I already own FC3 and 2 of the 3 list airframe additions.  I got free FC3 graphics update as well.  Tell me why I should add another $10 into something I already have, and not put it towards a piece of the Afghanistan map?  I will be in the F-4 timeout corner waiting on the reply.

If don't think you should then. But I also don't think you're the target customer.

[draconus]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:56 PM, mastershotgun said:

If someone owns the FC3 and all 3 full fidelity modules of the F-5E, F-86 and Mig-15 what he will gain by buying the FC2024?

You'll only get FC versions of these 3 aircraft to enjoy the simplified avionics and aircraft operation.

Quote

As with all FC aircraft, these additions are easy-to-learn, with less complex controls, and includes their DCS Professional Flight Models. The more accessible FC-style concept allows new and existing players to quickly jump into the action and have fun at an exceptionally advantageous price point. 

Flaming Cliffs 2024 provides an unrivalled sense of flight that only DCS can offer. With impressive and highly realistic 3D modelling, powerful authentic weapons and ease of use, Flaming Cliffs is specifically designed for those of you looking for an unbeatable combat experience, without having to learn all the systems and a very large number of cockpit inputs typical of the full fidelity aircraft in DCS.

Edited April 29 by draconus

[Home Fries]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:42 PM, Flogger23m said:

Most likely there will be something to differentiate them in the mission editor. F-5E, F-5E (FC) or something. So for old missions, just update them and copy/paste the F-5E flight and change it from F-5E to F-5E (FC). They might do something else though, where if you own F-5E or F-5E FC, it will auto detect which you have so you don't need to place both in a mission. And if you have both, when you select it, you will have an option likely once you hit "Briefing" or whatever the spawn button is.

 

IMO the ideal solution would be to add a combo box in the ME to either allow both variants (e.g. F-86FC and F-86), or make the slot exclusive to one variant or the other (for servers that want to restrict it to high fidelity).  This would give mission builders the flexibility without having to create extra slots for each version.  Hopefully ED implements something like this, esp. with the high fidelity MiG-29A coming out as well.

[Flogger23m]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:26 PM, Ruger357 said:

I guess I am at a loss here.  I already own FC3 and 2 of the 3 list airframe additions.  I got free FC3 graphics update as well.  Tell me why I should add another $10 into something I already have, and not put it towards a piece of the Afghanistan map?  I will be in the F-4 timeout corner waiting on the reply.

Then this is probably not for you. I don't have those planes and have little interest or time to learn/map controls for those three planes as high fidelity modules. But for $10 with simplified controls I can probably get a few hours of fun out of them.

Not exactly the planes I wanted to see, but it is a nice development. If a third party developer wants to do more simplified FC3 level planes I'd welcome that. For variants that cannot be modeled fully avionics wise it would be great. Much like the J-11 that was added a few years back. I wouldn't mind paying for something like an Su-27SM2, an updated F-15C with AIM-9X & JHMCS, or even other planes like Mirage 2000-9s and F/A-18Es.

As it is I'm sure we're running out of full fidelity planes to model currently anyways.

[Qcumber]

2 minutes ago, Flogger23m said:

As it is I'm sure we're running out of full fidelity planes to model currently anyways

Do you mean that there are not many planes that DCS could introduce as FF modules or that there are not many that could be converted into FC style aircraft?

If it's the former, then I have a very long list. 

[draconus]

11 hours ago, Flogger23m said:

As it is I'm sure we're running out of full fidelity planes to model currently anyways.

If we don't even have such icon as F-15A/C as FF yet then we're far from that.

Edited April 30 by draconus

[MADLOU1]

I like the F86.  In this new FC will it have an improved cockpit?  Also will I be able to somehow fly the simplified model in the FF F86 campaign made by Reflected Simulations?

[AdrianL]

1 minute ago, MADLOU1 said:

somehow fly the simplified model in the FF F86 campaign made by Reflected Simulation

The FC version will be listed as a different aircraft entry, so no. He would have to release another version of the campaign, or include 2 versions of each mission.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, MADLOU1 said:

In this new FC will it have an improved cockpit?  Also will I be able to somehow fly the simplified model in the FF F86 campaign made by Reflected Simulations?

We don't know yet if there will be any cockpit refreshing or how it will be integrated into ME.

If the cockpit will be renewed it most definitely will be announced and provided also for FF modules.

Due to different triggers used in the missions made for FF modules they may or may not work for FC aircraft. I can imagine some things involving actual switches/button like "Push button 5" will simply not work on the simplified radio in FC module.

[Flogger23m]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:33 PM, draconus said:

If we don't even have such icon as F-15A/C as FF yet then we're far from that.

 

 

The problem with full fidelity is if they can get access to such information. The is one of the biggest hurdles, if such information is available to model it. Don't expect an F-35 anytime soon, or even something like a Super Hornet. An F-15C likely falls into a similar situation.

On 4/29/2024 at 2:30 PM, Qcumber said:

Do you mean that there are not many planes that DCS could introduce as FF modules or that there are not many that could be converted into FC style aircraft?

If it's the former, then I have a very long list. 

 

For full fidelity modules the list is going to be limited. If I recall modern Russian planes are essentially off the table, early MIG-29As seems to be the most modern that can be done. Things like a Rafale or even modernized F-16s will be off the table as well.

For the most part it will be older stuff and specific variants of those. A-4s and whatnot. If they can do an F-15 I doubt it will be a modern F-15. Probably an old F-15A or F-15C pre-AIM-120. Certainly not the modern planes with AESA radars and AIM-9X.

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, Flogger23m said:

 

The problem with full fidelity is if they can get access to such information. The is one of the biggest hurdles, if such information is available to model it. Don't expect an F-35 anytime soon, or even something like a Super Hornet. An F-15C likely falls into a similar situation.

 

For full fidelity modules the list is going to be limited. If I recall modern Russian planes are essentially off the table, early MIG-29As seems to be the most modern that can be done. Things like a Rafale or even modernized F-16s will be off the table as well.

For the most part it will be older stuff and specific variants of those. A-4s and whatnot. If they can do an F-15 I doubt it will be a modern F-15. Probably an old F-15A or F-15C pre-AIM-120. Certainly not the modern planes with AESA radars and AIM-9X.

There are lots of cold war and WW2 aircraft that can be modelled FF. There is a real niche around the Korean war period that could include late WW2 and early jets. Also, the Vietnam war era. 

[Flogger23m]

10 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

There are lots of cold war and WW2 aircraft that can be modelled FF. There is a real niche around the Korean war period that could include late WW2 and early jets. Also, the Vietnam war era. 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear, I was referring to modern planes. I'm sure there is some overlap but generally people wanting to play a modern fighter have little interesting in WWII planes and vice versa. The amount of modern plane options is quite slim because a lot of the information is classified and hard to come across. It is quite amazing that ED was able to do an F-16C as it is, but I doubt we will see something like an F-16V anytime this decade if not longer.

Even the upcoming Eurofighter in "full fidelity" appears to be a rough approximation of variants/upgrades. I am okay with that, and the complexity will be higher than "low fidelity" FC3 fighters but like the FC3 planes some of the systems may end up being approximations.

[Xeemix]

A Su-25UTG and or MiG-29K in FC fidelity would be amazing in terms of using pre-existing frames, or hell, in the future, a Yak-38 and the first FC level helicopter, a Ka-27 maybe?

Edited May 4 by Xeemix

[draconus]

12 hours ago, Flogger23m said:

An F-15C likely falls into a similar situation.

No, it doesn't. Both A and C are cold war machines but even 90-2000 versions are not a problem. We already have AMRAAM, 9X and JHMCS capable Hornet, Viper and Strike Eagle (some features still in plans) with 2000s avionics, tpods and weapons. Wags' only argument against was F-15C's single role as air superiority being less popular than other multirole types.

That's just a single but very well known aircraft. There are still many icons to recreate.

Edited May 4 by draconus

[cfrag]

15 minutes ago, draconus said:

There are still many icons to recreate.

Yes! Avro Vulcan - the most beautiful aircraft ever made!

[Flogger23m]

20 hours ago, draconus said:

No, it doesn't. Both A and C are cold war machines but even 90-2000 versions are not a problem. We already have AMRAAM, 9X and JHMCS capable Hornet, Viper and Strike Eagle (some features still in plans) with 2000s avionics, tpods and weapons. Wags' only argument against was F-15C's single role as air superiority being less popular than other multirole types.

That's just a single but very well known aircraft. There are still many icons to recreate.

 

I am doubtful they can get enough information on a modern F-15C. Just because you get access to information to one plane type doesn't mean you can get access to another plane type.