waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[TKhaos]

Interesting comments from 'cjmanson5692' on the video, you know it's going to be a classic when it starts with "I heard a rumour" followed by "EDIT, I've heard another rumour" then goes on to type a load of rubbish, if he bends the truth much more he will have to change his name to Uri Geller

I don't think anyone could beat the handful of people on Reddit claiming the Wagner Group are behind it all, makes you wonder how some people function in the real world

Edited September 7, 2024 by TKhaos

[Schhultzyyy]

4 hours ago, Nightdare said:

"Artistic intent"? I'm sure the Academy awards are impressed

It's artistic at a somewhat tamer level of a whining baby throwing his toys out of the pram

That statement is completely asinine. Happy to know any discourse can simply be resolved by saying "yeah no you're wrong achtually, I alone decide the artistic merit of any piece of media" 

[Oban]

1 hour ago, Vortexstate said:

Really curious to know who's privileged. We're all just people talking about a legal dispute that honestly isn't helping anything

A legal dispute that 99.9999999% of consumers are not privy to all the facts, and that despite being told that there will not be any statements made by either party until a resolution has been agreed upon.

The same consumers who believe they have a say in company policies, internal affairs and machinations, and discussions, and throw their teddies out of their prams becasue they're not getting what they want.... those are the priveleged.

I'm a consumer of the F15E, as well as other RB products, I am still getting value for money on said products too, the number of hours alone on the F15E compared to the purchase price has been worth every single penny, is the situation bad, sure it is, has it stopped the module from actually working? No, it hasn't, it still does what was advertised, and I'm not losing any sleep about the situation either.

[Oban]

10 minutes ago, Vortexstate said:

I think you're the only person depicting people of doing that, or the majority of people. Whatever image you're forming of me inside your head, it's probably wrong. I hope this situation gets resolved, but there has been enough evidence to clearly see that RAZBAM has not been paid, and it doesn't help that there's no proof from ED's side of them saying that they actually broke a contract or anything like that. The RAZBAM devs are transparent, informative and clearly want to get the situation resolved, and I know that because me and many others have literally talked to them. I don't see ED doing any of that. Also, these people you call "privileged," have every right to be mad. And anyone that's been paying attention will easily be able to find and understand who's at fault for this, and that's clearly ED. Not even sure why this thread/forum exists, because it's clearly just getting people rallied up and seems to actually be causing more aggression and confusion.

I rest my case.. FYI I had you summed up right from the get go.

[Oban]

21 minutes ago, Vortexstate said:

Yeah, you obviously don't contribute to this discussion. I responded to you in a civil way, and you can't continue it on? 

What exactly is there to contribute that hasn't been beaten to death in the 3 others threads since this entire debacle unfolded?

And your contribution has been what exactly? Finger pointing and blame gaming, you guys are predictable as the sun rising in the East, unless you're in possesion of all the facts, and technical contracts, then you're offering nothing new, that hasn't been discussed ad nauseum.

Like I said, I had you sized up right from the get go.

 

[Dallenbach]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Oban:

I'm a consumer of the F15E, as well as other RB products, I am still getting value for money on said products too, the number of hours alone on the F15E compared to the purchase price has been worth every single penny, is the situation bad, sure it is, has it stopped the module from actually working? No, it hasn't, it still does what was advertised, and I'm not losing any sleep about the situation either.

That's exactly what I think about the RB modules. That's why I didn't ask for a refund for the F15E.
However, my trust in Mr. Zambrano is zero - also because of the history of this company.

[Dallenbach]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Vortexstate:

Genuine question: do you believe what RAZBAM devs say though?

They aren't getting paid, and to my knowledge, that doesn't seem that legal. 

RAZBAM would've earned anywhere from 7 figures with the sales report for 2023, and it'd only get higher if you included the 2024 sales report.

Must suck.

Many of the things that razbam spreads on the net are questionable. It may be that the dev did not receive any money. But that is Mr. Zambrano's problem.
You have no idea whether the procedure is legal or not because you don't know the contracts.
All the comments here in this thread are actually useless because nobody can change anything except those involved.

[Dallenbach]

Gerade eben schrieb Vortexstate:

It's definitely not just Zambrano's problem. Both RAZBAM and ED as a whole are affected by it, especially RAZBA.

I agree with you on those last two parts. There is definitely some interesting info coming from RAZBAM.

I'm looking forward to the info. Like probably everyone here. Hopefully it will be an official announcement. Anything else would just be rumors to me.

[draconus]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:13 AM, Vortexstate said:

They aren't getting paid, and to my knowledge, that doesn't seem that legal. 

Why do you feel the urge to defend them? They're grown ups and have their lawyers on it. You make it sound like it's some child labor or african farmers abuse.

Edited September 8, 2024 by draconus

[MAXsenna]

They've worked hard to develop the module and now they don't even receive the money for it. If that's the way you see it, that's quite odd. 

Razbam devs are paid by Razbam, and not ED. That's on Razbam. As stated numerous times in this thread. And they don't actually help themselves doing what they are currently doing.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Michal]

Lawyers? Really? Where? 

[bjdy]

2 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

They've worked hard to develop the module and now they don't even receive the money for it. If that's the way you see it, that's quite odd. 

As much as I hate getting into this when we know little to nothing...

But I read again and again that RB didn't get paid for their work. Isn't this why Ed stopped paying RB, because they didn't get paid for THEIR work? According to Nicks statement :"in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights"

So ED worked hard to develop the software (or whatever) and now they don't recieve the money for it. If that's the way you see it, that's quite odd.

 

I haven't the slightest idea what's going on here, I just wish all the fanbois could stfu on both sides and stand together as a community.

[Mizzy]

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

there has been enough evidence to clearly see that RAZBAM has not been paid, and it doesn't help that there's no proof from ED's side of them saying that they actually broke a contract or anything like that.

Can't you see why we sussed you out as a Razboy straight away. You all use the 'non payment' tag when the dispute is clearly about something else that happened, and nobody knows what it was, other than IP infringement and led to Razbam not getting paid, the latter is not in dispute. Nobody here disputes Razbam not being paid and people clearly saw this well before you did it seems, so what is your real agenda being here because it's not about Razbam being paid or not!

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

RAZBAM devs are transparent

Really !!

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

 who's at fault for this, and that's clearly ED. 

And that says it all about you being here, nobody knows who is at fault so where have you got your clarity from to make such a judgement? You forgot who made all this dispute public when these disputes are highly confidential, or should be. Who is 'leaking' uncorroborated evidence and using their Discord/Reddit to poison the other side? Yes you know who.

You saw a statement from Razbam stating they haven't been paid and they have no idea why, come on, lapped it up hook line and sinker and swallowed it, pull the other one ! Is it really plausible a 3rd Party developer in DCS is not getting paid for no reason on their own Discord and then spread this sh%t to Reddit.

Not only does it not make sense, we have one of the two stooges trying to claim ED has run out of money and that's the hinted reason for Razbam not getting paid. 

Zambrano, Smiley and Mishy2mashy obviously have something to be accountable for by the way they are acting and using fools to smear the other side. Try to think rationally, why was Razbam not paid, but please don't use the old sausage about HB, other 3rd Party business is highly confidential and another reason to hold Zambrano to account trying to bring in other developers into the dispute and further poison ED to save what may be just a failing business and his own reputation. 

Mizzy

Edited September 7, 2024 by Mizzy
Extension of opinion

[nessuno0505]

I - as everyone else here - know nothing except official statemets, nevertehless it's quite weird that ED is short of money and does not pay 3rd party devs, but the only one affected being Razbam. Either ED particularly dislikes Razbam, or something does not add up. What is blatantly clear, though, is that the 3rd party involved - as usual when there is a mess - is Razbam. Those who announced tons of modules with just a picture, from the av-8b plus to the amx, and no one knows what happened to those modules; those who put the av-8b out of early access being it clearly unfinished, and that anomaly is still there despite the popular uprising. Maybe it's all ED's fault against honest workers forced to work for free, but there must be a reason why, when there is a mess, Razbam is always involved... 

Edited September 7, 2024 by nessuno0505

[TKhaos]

9 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

there has been enough evidence to clearly see that RAZBAM has not been paid, and it doesn't help that there's no proof from ED's side

There's been an official statement from both sides, other than that it's all unsubstantiated allegations from a couple of disgruntled Razbam staff/contractors and done in a totally unprofessional way, which in some instances have been libellous. It's escalated because some people have taken what they see as 'evidence' and twisted it to meet their own agenda. A screenshot of three text messages and the rantings of M2M and several others does not constitute evidence.

ED is a private company and doesn't have to provide you or anyone else with proof of anything. ED have remained silent because that's what they would have been instructed to do by their legal team.  

9 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

The RAZBAM devs are transparent, informative and clearly want to get the situation resolved, and I know that because me and many others have literally talked to them. I don't see ED doing any of that.

Wouldn't actually call Razbam devs as being transparent, until Ron Zambrano or his legal representative confirms it 100% factual then it’s still unsubstantiated allegations. If I was Ron Zambrano I would have instructed the devs to refrain from any further comments to avoid any further damage to his company reputation and legal proceedings.

It's a bizarre way of Razbam trying to resolve the situation, first a press release without any prior warning, then allowing the devs to publicly slate the company you are trying to resolve the issues with.

The situation has been made worse by Razbam allowing certain devs to fuel misinformation in discussions knowing that it will likely lead to more outrageous claims by Razbam followers and trolls.

 

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

Genuine question: do you believe what RAZBAM devs say though?

I believe there is a dispute between ED and Razbam, as noted in an official statement by both parties. Other than that Joe Public knows nothing as the dispute is being dealt with privately, as it should be between two private companies.

Do I believe the devs, well there’s always an element of truth in most things but as I have not seen the contracts between either party regarding T&C and payments I won’t comment. I would have been more inclined to believe the devs if they hadn’t been so unprofessional in the way they delivered their point of view.

End of the day, like I have said before and many others that regardless of who did what, it is Razbam’s responsibility to pay their staff and contractors.

 

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

RAZBAM would've earned anywhere from 7 figures with the sales report for 2023, and it'd only get higher if you included the 2024 sales report.

This is what intrigues me, you seem to have knowledge of Razbam’s income from sales, have you seen the contract that details how much they are paid per module to allows you to arrive at a 7 figure number. Just asking out of interest, nothing else.

On a final note I would just say I am on neither side when it comes to the dispute, I view everything impartially and make my conclusions based on that. Without any real evidence at present of how genuine the hearsay is it’s a best guess scenario which I don’t do.

I will however give an example of misinformation based on the YouTube video that was posted, in particular one of the comments that refers to embezzlement. One of the sources of that comment is a well known group on Reddit which many people base their arguments on.

That rumour has been spread as 100% accurate, the originators often being prodded by Razbam devs to inflame the situation but it turns out that it’s actually 100% incorrect and untrue.

The truth is they were totally legal, legitimate interest free business loans between two companies which is common practise. There might be suggestions about a person being owner or part owner of both companies but it is still legal, still common practise and a ‘totally transparent’ transaction for anyone to see.

Edited September 7, 2024 by TKhaos
Spellcheck

[Mizzy]

29 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

I - as everyone else here - know nothing except official statemets, nevertehless it's quite weird that ED is short of money and does not pay 3rd party devs, but the only one affected being Razbam. Either ED particularly dislikes Razbam, or something does not add up. What is blatantly clear, though, is that the 3rd party involved - as usual when there is a mess - is Razbam. Those who announced tons of modules with just a picture, from the av-8b plus to the amx, and no one knows what happened to those modules; those who put the av-8b out of early access being it clearly unfinished, and that anomaly is still there despite the popular uprising. Maybe it's all ED's fault against honest workers forced to work for free, but there must be a reason why, when there is a mess, Razbam is always involved... 

 

Yes, something does not add up does it!

Mizzy

[Citizen]

2 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Zambrano, Smiley and Mishy2mashy obviously have something to be accountable for by the way they are acting and using fools to smear the other side.

If I said that ED had 1.4 million reasons to make up an IP dispute, it'd be called speculation and commentary not inline with guardrails of the thread.

The purpose of this thread is to give influencers and named contributors such as yourself a platform to sensemake, speculate and spin while denying the same to folks that don't buy the company line.  I believe this because I work in marketing and PR and would be tempted to do the same.

There's little reason to do that if you honestly believe an equitable outcome is possible.

[NineLine]

9 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

There is definitely some interesting info coming from RAZBAM.

Unless they made a new official statement, I would not regard that as info coming from the company called RAZBAM. Once again let's all, both sides, try to focus on what we know officially and not outside white noise that cannot be confirmed. 

[Oban]

14 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

You do know that ED has stated the modules will continue to work in their current state, right? 

Oh don't spoil their hyperbole mate

[MAXsenna]

Oh don't spoil their hyperbole mate

Ouch! Apologies!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Smashy]

14 hours ago, Schhultzyyy said:

That statement is completely asinine. Happy to know any discourse can simply be resolved by saying "yeah no you're wrong achtually, I alone decide the artistic merit of any piece of media" 

I thought the video was embarrassingly bad.  Art is subjective but this held no artistic merit for me.

[Viper33]

32 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

You do know that ED has stated the modules will continue to work in their current state, right? 

Whether this is true or not - only time will show. And you do realize what "in their current state" means, right? 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Viper33

[MAXsenna]

Whether this is true or not - only time will show. And you do realize what "in their current state" means, right? 

Why wouldn't it be true? You need to blame Razbam for taking them out of EA. That's the current state really.
I have no clue how long you've been playing DCS or been lurking in the forums, while it's not that many years ago Razbam where Razbam received a lot of heat for doing it. Remember? Pretty much the only goodwill they have worked up now is due to the recent updates to the Mirage and the release of the SE. People have such short memories.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Smashy]

8 hours ago, Vortexstate said:

They've worked hard to develop the module and now they don't even receive the money for it. If that's the way you see it, that's quite odd. 

It's just a bad situation all around and I don't think anyone is cheering the fact that people aren't being paid for their efforts.

However, there is a group of people participating in discussions here and elsewhere that almost seem to enjoy the drama and gossip.  I suspect that most of these same people have never been personally involved in a legal dispute so it's tough for them to understand how these things work.  I think this naivety makes them prone to believing anything that supports what they imagine is happening.  It would be neat to see less time spent jumping to conclusions and more time spent playing the game while things get sorted.

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Citizen said:

If I said that ED had 1.4 million reasons to make up an IP dispute, it'd be called speculation and commentary not inline with guardrails of the thread.

The purpose of this thread is to give influencers and named contributors such as yourself a platform to sensemake, speculate and spin while denying the same to folks that don't buy the company line.  I believe this because I work in marketing and PR and would be tempted to do the same.

There's little reason to do that if you honestly believe an equitable outcome is possible.

Hi Citizen, firstly I am not an influencer here in DCS, I don't use DCS to do any fighting so much of the threads on this forum are topics discussing things I have no idea about. If ED had 1.4 million reasons to make up a story about IP disputes, then I would say they had far too much time on their hands doing so

"a platform to sensemake, speculate and spin while denying the same to folks that don't buy the company line." You have just answered your query, some of us don't buy the Company line of Razbam because Zambrfano's 'spin' does not make any sense and therefore it is without context of what the real dispute is actually all about. Ip infringement sounds far more logical that non payment issues causing all this mess.

 

2 hours ago, Citizen said:

There's little reason to do that if you honestly believe an equitable outcome is possible.

Indeed, I honesty believe there is zero chance of this being equitable simply because zambrano has dragged a confidential and private matter into the public domain with the result of his developers (no one knows what zambrano actually did) running amuck poisoning DCS over one issue and that's the one zambrano wants to push the narrative of non payment.

For me, the quicker ED gets the nod from their lawyers that they can drop zambrano (and his band of two merry men), the better.

Anyway, enjoy DCS, it's really good.

Mizzy

Edited September 7, 2024 by Mizzy