waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Oban said:

There's still a long way to go, don't expect anything to be resolved until the 2nd quarter of 2025...

Probably longer, Razbam have a convoluted business structure and it's been the subject of several posts.

https://venturesmarter.com/ltd-vs-llc/

Mizzy

[Mizzy]

On 12/5/2024 at 1:22 PM, Nightdare said:

 

No they don't

First you send a Cease and Desist letter, then you (must) "remind the offending party a few times and inform them that "if our demands aren't met by *x* date, we will [insert method of pressure here]"

This is the cheapest solution to try and fix disputes (apart from "Hey you! stop!", "oh sorry didn't realize I was out of bounds, will do!")

This "method of pressure" is where the lawyers of the demanding party dig up what is allowed and what not, because the last thing you want, when you need to escalate the dispute in a full on lawsuit, is a pissed off judge telling you you were too draconian in the means used to protect your rights and decide(more) in favor of the accused

It's called a 'Pre Action Protocol' (PAP) in the UKs Civil code of practice. Before any formal litigation, there must be a proven PAP and if there is no PAP, the Company who wishes to take the path of Formal Litigation will simply be asked to attempt mediation first before Formal Litigation can proceed and be listed. From my understanding, that is what ED have done already.

Mizzy   

[afnav130]

On 12/5/2024 at 7:53 AM, Oban said:

To point fingers and get upset at each other like every thread created since this drama unfolded.

Pretty much. Both sides have dug in, you won't hear anyone here saying they were in the wrong either even if they were. Ditto for RB. There is less than a 0 percent chance that would happen. So I personally am left with this. Do I listen to the silence, or do I listen to some current and other former USAF F15E crew members that have worked on the E model. I have said in the past that these guys I assure you don't take lightly to them having their reputations called into question. 

Edited December 7, 2024 by afnav130
typo

[Oban]

1 hour ago, Pipe said:

So its ok if ED staff make public comments, and RB staff and company are trash and unprofessional for making public comments. Seems ligit

Not pointed at you directly, but it has not gone unnoticed 

You're literally taking Kates wording out of context, and I don't recall any of ED's team doing any shyt talking publically... can't say the same thing from RB side, which also hasn't gone unoticed.

 

[Horns]

1 hour ago, Pipe said:

So its ok if ED staff make public comments, and RB staff and company are trash and unprofessional for making public comments. Seems ligit

Not pointed at you directly, but it has not gone unnoticed 

And even a seemingly well meaning, positive comment that was neither about Razbam nor the matters in dispute has led to enough confusion that it’s fair to say that it might have been better left unsaid. A good example of why it’s better if both sides avoid commenting.

[Oban]

15 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Pretty much. Both sides have dug in, you won't hear anyone here saying they were in the wrong either even if they were. Ditto for RB. There is less than a 0 percent chance that would happen. So I personally am left with this. Do I listen to the silence, or do I listen to some current and other former USAF F15E crew members that have worked on the E model. I have said in the past that these guys I assure you don't take lightly to them having their reputations called into question. 

"Discretion is the better part of valor"

1 minute ago, Horns said:

And even a seemingly well meaning, positive comment that was neither about Razbam nor the matters in dispute has led to enough confusion that it’s fair to say that it might have been better left unsaid. A good example of why it’s better if both sides avoid commenting.

Both parties have intimated right from the begining that they want to see the F15E continue and progress, so her comments were nothing out of the ordinary, again people read what they wanted to read, and put 2+2 together and come up with "it's over for RB/ED"

[Horns]

11 minutes ago, Oban said:

Both parties have intimated right from the begining that they want to see the F15E continue and progress, so her comments were nothing out of the ordinary, again people read what they wanted to read, and put 2+2 together and come up with "it's over for RB/ED"

Agree that a comment about hoping for a positive outcome for the F-15E isn’t out of the ordinary, but it’s still wound up creating questions rather than clarity. IMO it’s unfair to blame Kate for the interpretation of an interpretation (I recently helped with some training that used DeepL translation, I’m assured some of the sentences it created were ‘bizarre’), but it’s still a study in the dangers of commenting in such a situation.

[Gizmo03]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Oban:

The customers are not left in the dark…

As long as i don‘t know what „Don‘t worry, the F-15 will see development this way or the other“ and „MiG-23 will be a thing“ means, i‘m absolutely in the dark.
 

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Oban:

…it's been stated umpteen times that anything official would be through this channel, and not passing comments, despite Kates position within the company.
 

And that‘s the problem. That‘s why it is (in my opinion) unprofessional. She did exactly that.
I know, you know, almost everyone of the community knows that she has access to more information and knows apparently more than most of the other staff of the company and belongs to the circle of persons who are giving the official informations to the CMs in order to publish them - through this channel.
Now she bypassed the CMs and this channel and commented on this topic by herself knowing exactly that every single official information has to be communicated via this channel. And what kind of information did she give? It‘s all half backed…. it could mean everything and nothing at the same time - just depending of what every individual person here wants to read into it.
And the silence after this 2 comments reminds me on the times when i was a kid and my parents told me that they saw Santa Claus and all the presents he was carrying with him but when i asked, if they also saw mine they started to ignore me. Meanwhile i‘m a bit to old for this kind of games.

This is not a „20XX and beyond“ video where you can tease a new module or something else. This is a serious situation where a lot of customers are loosing trust in the platform and in ED and it‘s for sure not the right time to play with public perceptions….
She‘s not one of the programmers, leaking some information. She‘s the COO of ED.
If the COO wants to talk to the customers directly because she has to say something, go ahead,  i appreciate that. But make it clear - not like this because this is a very sensitive topic.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Oban:

Right from the get go, the public perception was that after the Hawk debacle ED had stated this situation would never arise again, and that future contracts would invlove being able to have access to the source code, and in this case it wasn't any different, except the measure put in place were AFTER the contract to develop the F15E with Razbam, so it didn't apply, it is everyones wishful thinking that ED, if the situation cannot be resolved between RB and ED, then ED would somehow continue to develop the F15E.

What i wrote has absolutely nothing to do with the Hawk disaster. It was mentioned more than enough times that the thing with the source code depends on when the contract for a module was signed and it‘s more or less not affecting the SE, which could be pretty bad for us.
And i think it‘s not that, what people thought when they‘ve read the comment about the F-15.
I think what people thought is more like ED and RB just made some kind of agreement that RB will sell the code to ED in case everything goes really bad - or something similar. A bit like „Guys, we just achived another goal in our negotiations, don‘t worry anymore about the F-15 - it‘s already safe. Now the negotiations will continue.“

[Nightdare]

2 hours ago, Gizmo03 said:

As long as i don‘t know what „Don‘t worry, the F-15 will see development this way or the other“ and „MiG-23 will be a thing“ means, i‘m absolutely in the dark.

 

Actually, no

Taking those words, we can reason that the F-15 will be developed regardless the outcome, and Mig-23 will one day appear on DCS (if not by RB, then by another 3rd party or ED themselves)

So one could argue, the only questions that remain is "How and when?"

No, this isn't the happy end some are waiting for, that apparently is going to take a while, but it seems there well be a happy end sooner or later

[Gizmo03]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Nightdare:

 

Actually, no

Taking those words, we can reason that the F-15 will be developed regardless the outcome, and Mig-23 will one day appear on DCS (if not by RB, then by another 3rd party or ED themselves)

So one could argue, the only questions that remain is "How and when?"

No, this isn't the happy end some are waiting for, that apparently is going to take a while, but it seems there well be a happy end sooner or later

That's right and i would love to take that for granted.

But on the other hand if you read this thread it sounds like these kinds of comments are more or less common practice to calm down the customers a bit. Since i'm not working in the software industries or sales business, i have no clue about these common practices.
But if that's true, we don't have only the "How and when". We also have a big "If" and also a "Who". And these are essential questions without an answer which leaves me in the dark

And that's sad because even though i know the SE is really enjoyable in the current state, i am totally lacking of motivation to go deeper into it. Because everytime i use it, i enjoy it a bit more. The more i enjoy it, the more i'm afraid of loosing it again because of it's uncertain future. I know: sounds stupid but unfortunately it is as it is. If i could take this "Don't worry abaout the F-15" comment as granted i would immediately start again with the F-15E.

I like the first post in this thread, because it's clear and contains just the cold facts with almost no room for speculations or interpretation. I can ignore all these "leaked informations" from a couple of programmers, but it's pretty hard for me to ignore a comment like this from the COO of ED itself.
Even though these informations are from EDs COO it seems not to be official because it's not in the first post - so where are we now? (edit: that's the "darkness" i'm talking about )

 

Edited December 7, 2024 by Gizmo03

[Oban]

Grab a torch (for that darkness) , hop into the F15E set some amazing fog/dust distances and thrash yourself all over the Syria map..at low level

[Gizmo03]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Oban:

Grab a torch (for that darkness) , hop into the F15E set some amazing fog/dust distances and thrash yourself all over the Syria map..at low level

You are so right!! And i really should. But as i said: i can't motivate myself. I just can't.

EDIT: and just to make it clear: I hate myself for that

Edited December 7, 2024 by Gizmo03

[DmitriKozlowsky]

There was no updates to any RAZBAM products in 2.10.XXX  NONE! Is this it? No more updates to my beloved AV-8B and S.Atl map?

[Nightdare]

55 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

There was no updates to any RAZBAM products in 2.10.XXX  NONE! Is this it? No more updates to my beloved AV-8B and S.Atl map?

 

Are they Early access?

[Pipe]

59 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

There was no updates to any RAZBAM products in 2.10.XXX  NONE! Is this it? No more updates to my beloved AV-8B and S.Atl map?

South Atlantic map has been recieving updates

[Horns]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

There was no updates to any RAZBAM products in 2.10.XXX  NONE! Is this it? No more updates to my beloved AV-8B and S.Atl map?

I believe there won't be any more updates to the AV-8B until this dispute is resolved. In the meantime ED is going to try to ensure that no updates to the base sim cause the module to stop functioning as it does now.

As Pipe said the South Atlantic map has been receiving updates, so fingers crossed that remains unaffected.

[MAXsenna]

South Atlantic map has been recieving updates

That team is not really part of Razbam.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Why I am 'despondent'

On my rig, with carefully tuned DCS and RTX Nvidia panel settings 2560X1440 @144Hz refresh

AV-8B average FPS is 120-130 FPS with 150 FPS exceeding frequently.

Mirage 2000C 150-180 FPS exceeding 200 often in Nevada. 120  FPS average in South Atlantic.

No other module I have approacahes those levels of peformance. RAZBAM knows how to write efficient code and make Nvidia RTX sing and dance inside DCS.

Now RAZBAM and ED are feuding.

[freehand]

4 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

That team is not really part of Razbam.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

So is the SA a keeper as I am tempted a purchase ?

[MAXsenna]

So is the SA a keeper as I am tempted a purchase ?

My personal opinion? A hard YES! There are reports of performance issues below 900'. (I do see it from time to time myself), but the devs have been tuning the map and I believe they're working on it. The main problem as I see it is the lack of premade content, missions/campaigns, while there are some nice ones in the user files.
I guess many of us were expecting more "official" content geared towards the Falklands Conflict. Like what they did with BD and Reflected for the Kola.
As far as I know, It's "the same team" as the Kola map, and one can see the similarities, so if you put on your tinfoil hat, you can let your imagination take off about why Kola was released under another company.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Burning Bridges]

1 hour ago, freehand said:

So is the SA a keeper as I am tempted a purchase ?

Imo the best map I have seen so far in all of DCS.

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, freehand said:

So is the SA a keeper as I am tempted a purchase ?

 

It's a great map! One of my favourites. And it has had several quality updates and has not been abandoned at all. It can be had on sale too. Nice diversity of terrain, has a great feel to it, and it's freaking huge. 

 

Highly recommended. 

[Gorn_GER]

5 hours ago, freehand said:

So is the SA a keeper as I am tempted a purchase ?

If you don’t want to see onesided answers from people who buy everything in this store, here is an answer from someone who bought too much for good. 
the SA Map could be interesting but as far as you have no big community with missionmakers that will follow you to buy that map or being a missionmaker by yourself and like to make missions that you play alone, this module could be for you. Otherwise not. 
 

the scenario does not fit, since the only historical interesting war played around modules, we don’t have in DCS yet. 
therefore Fiction missions is the key but they are all done on free Caucasus map to get interesting for more players that won’t spend so much money on new maps. 
 

Not even the AV8B Harrier fits on that map because if you play Falklands War with the Harrier against F1, you lack the capabilities of A/A tracking Radar and BVR missles that the brits used with the SeaHarrier to catch them. 
when I bought the map, there was a possibility to get another variants of the Harrier, one day. But at the moment, nothing looks like this could be a future anymore. 
even though the Map may look good, I never found a use for my money because it is underrepresented in the World of DCS. I not even found good missions for that in the Internet that looked like it could be more fun than an hour of gameplay. Therefor better buy Persian Golf and Syria if you like to play with other people. 
 

The only way to rescue this map, could be a good dynamic campaign system that would make fun, even playing alone or with a small group. But people here already wait for ages. 

[_UnknownCheater_]

When will F15E back to dev? F15E is the second discontinued plane.First one is HAWK.Another scandal.All players should refrain from purchasing anything until this is resolved.

[Beirut]

7 hours ago, Gorn_GER said:

If you don’t want to see onesided answers from people who buy everything in this store, here is an answer from someone who bought too much for good. 

 

For my part, I have not bought everything in the store. But of course I do have all the maps. 

 

That said, my response was not one sided. My response was based on the quality of the map, the quality of support for the map, and the enjoyable flights that can be had with it. If a particular module or campaign is lacking in thing A or thing B, that does not take away from the map being very interesting and sometimes downright stunning. It is, after all, a very large chunk of South America. And I love it. 

 

Like with all things in this sim, it's what you make of it.