waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Wizard_03]

56 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Most of the interactions I have seen have shown that the Devs that are speaking up WANT to get back to work. They may have views on ED based on the situation, but at the end of the day they want to continue working. But how I interpret the messaging is that they want resolution to the core issue (which I wont go into claims/etc.) before they start work up again.

I'm sure they do because they would like to get paid but name calling and fostering mass hysteria on discord is not the way to do it, and they show their true colors by doing so.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Wizard_03

[stonewall197922]

8 минут назад, Wizard_03 сказал:

It's unprofessional, and it's no way to treat business partners EVEN if you are in the right. There is never a need for personal attacks period. 

 

What happens if they do figure things out and go back to work? Can't really take anything back on the Internet. Everyone now knows how they feel. Personally I wouldn't be comfortable buying things made by them, that will require future support knowing that. So the damage is done as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Its hard to tell who are right. You need to know all info about this. But only knows everything and they remain silent.

[VpR81]

25 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

I think it is entirely possible to have this conversation without talking negatively about either party.

Very strange, that you come here to tell this, but don´t have the courage to tell this to the people (including the devs) on the RB forum? Afraid of recieving flak over there? Don´t tell me you haven´t seen this sh*t (inlcuding racist stuff like "in the end, they´re still russians") on the RB forum getting tolerated by the RB mods (wich means, they go along with hate speech, personal attacks and this form of racism). 

The RB discord is nothing but a huge melting pot for hate speech and personal attacks, wich says everything about RB and their fanboys. And someone acting like that, is likely to be the one beeing responcible for things going down. One who is in the right, does not need to act like RB and their fanboys do on the RB discord. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by VpR81

[JuiceIsLoose]

1 minute ago, VpR81 said:

Very strange, that you come here to tell this, but don´t have the courage to tell this to the people (including the devs) on the RB forum? Afraid of recieving flak over there? Don´t tell me you haven´t seen this sh*t (inlcuding racist stuff like "in the end, they´re still russians") on the RB forum getting tolerated by the RB mods (wich means, they go along with hate speech, personal attacks and this form of racism). 

The RB discord is nothing but a huge melting pot for hate speech and personal attacks, wich says everything about RB and their fanboys. And someone acting like that, is likely to be the one beeing responcible for things going down. One who is in the right, does not need to act like RB and their fanboys do on the RB discord.

I have in fact stated that people should voice their concerns respectfully, in the RB community. And I feel my posts have been respectful. Firm, maybe. But not negative, or flaming of any individual or company. I cannot control what others do, but what I can do is try to promote respectful conversation on this topic, which is what I am trying to do.

[Horns]

7 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

Very strange, that you come here to tell this, but don´t have the courage to tell this to the people (including the devs) on the RB forum? Afraid of recieving flak over there? Don´t tell me you haven´t seen this sh*t (inlcuding racist stuff like "in the end, they´re still russians") on the RB forum getting tolerated by the RB mods (wich means, they go along with hate speech, personal attacks and this form of racism). 

The RB discord is nothing but a huge melting pot for hate speech and personal attacks, wich says everything about RB and their fanboys. And someone acting like that, is likely to be the one beeing responcible for things going down. One who is in the right, does not need to act like RB and their fanboys do on the RB discord.

I know you and others got treated harshly on the Razbam discord, that shouldn't have happened, it was unprofessional of them to let it happen, and it does nothing for their credibility. Personally, I would suggest you make a complaint to Discord, since the whole ANG thing they're supposed to be a little more willing to act.

Thing is, just going on what you have said yourself about how that Discord is run, explains why it's pointless for anyone to go there and comment. I would think we'd like this to be a place where people can take any position - including a neutral one - and be respected.

Edit: Please note I posted this before seeing JuiceIsLoose's most recent comment

Edited June 4, 2024 by Horns
As above

[VpR81]

1 minute ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

I have in fact stated that people should voice their concerns respectfully, in the RB community. And I feel my posts have been respectful. Firm, maybe. But not negative, or flaming of any individual or company. I cannot control what others do, but what I can do is try to promote respectful conversation on this topic, which is what I am trying to do

I´m not taling about you, but the overall attitude and tone on the RB discord. Including the racist bs. And not to talk about the way they speak about other 3rd party devs (Heatblur = Lagblur) while praising the RB modules. And again, this beeing tolerated by the RB mods is very, very telling. A trustworthy company would NEVER act like this or tolerate such things on their official discord. fact.

This isn´t Razbams first <profanity>show btw. I remember them trying to paint the Harrier as feature complete while it was nowhere near feature complete. The had to back down after a massive <profanity>storm on the forum. And i´m still waiting for my promised Harrier manual, RB is incapable of delivering for years now. Razbam has a very "special" reputation, not only in the DCS community, but in every community they provide 3rd party modules for.

[AJaromir]

As a customer (consumer), I could care less about internal disputes. I am simply a customer, I buy goods and the seller has to comply with all the legal conditions that apply in the country. If the contract guarantees support, they must provide it. If they knowingly sell a broken product or otherwise mislead the buyer, they can be severely punished for that. Which is currently ED's problem, because ED is the one who sells the modules in question, regardless of who creates them. In our country, by law, the seller is responsible for the products.

Edited June 4, 2024 by AJaromir

[Horns]

9 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

This isn´t Razbams first <profanity>show btw. I remember them trying to paint the Harrier as feature complete while it was nowhere near feature complete. The had to back down after a massive <profanity>storm on the forum. And i´m still waiting for my promised Harrier manual, RB is incapable of delivering for years now. Razbam has a very "special" reputation, not only in the DCS community, but in every community they provide 3rd party modules for.

Totally agree on what you say about the Harrier - had I realized it was supposed to be out of EA since 2020 and/or seen the related thread I would have never bought the SA map. I'm just glad I saw it before buying the Mudhen.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Horns
Added "since 2020"

[VpR81]

15 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

And I feel my posts have been respectful.

That the reason why you linked my post about the attitude on the RB discord? Or was it to make fun of it together with the KJW guy? Doeson´t look like a respectful post...

[JuiceIsLoose]

3 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

That the reason why you linked my post about the attitude on the RB discord? Or was it to make fun of it together with the KJW guy? Doeson´t look like a respectful post...

What I linked was a link to my post. And followed it with “This is the forum post that Nineline is following and has been responding to. Would encourage people to again respectfully voice their concerns”. What image discord pulls from the forum link I can’t control. 

[eFirehawk]

2 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

I don't see any ED reps/mods making publicly disparaging remarks or launching personal attacks at razbam. That speaks volumes to me.

I see ED still having a module for sale that is involved in a blizzard of issues now and seems to not have a future anymore, regardless of who's fault it is (when it could very well be that both parties are) - and that speaks volumes to me. New buyers are likely getting an orphaned module. There is not even a disclaimer in place to inform them. To me that kind of behavior is a bit of an offender too.

[NineLine]

2 minutes ago, eFirehawk said:

I see ED still having a module for sale that is involved in a blizzard of issues now and seems to not have a future anymore, regardless of who's fault it is (when it could very well be that both parties are) - and that speaks volumes to me. New buyers are likely getting an orphaned module. There is not even a disclaimer in place to inform them. To me that kind of behavior is a bit of an offender too.

I am not sure what continued sales of the module have to do with anything when the goal is to solve this and move forward. Removing it from sale would be more of an issue and show less confidence in a solution. I assume this is why its still shown on RAZBAM's own website and a link directing people to ED Store.

[Wizard_03]

6 minutes ago, eFirehawk said:

I see ED still having a module for sale that is involved in a blizzard of issues now and seems to not have a future anymore, regardless of who's fault it is (when it could very well be that both parties are) - and that speaks volumes to me. New buyers are likely getting an orphaned module. There is not even a disclaimer in place to inform them. To me that kind of behavior is a bit of an offender too.

Yes it's very possible for both sides to be wrong. Please see my posts earlier in this thread, when I offer plenty of feedback for ED and how they are handling the situation. At the same time though, I don't see ED hurling personal attacks at anyone which are completely uncalled for. One side is acting professionally the other is not. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by Wizard_03

[VpR81]

37 minutes ago, Horns said:

Personally, I would suggest you make a complaint to Discord, since the whole ANG thing they're supposed to be a little more willing to act.

Thx for the hint, but tbh i don´t think that would have much of an impact. Imo, RB and their fanbase are already derailed beyond repair.

42 minutes ago, Horns said:

Edit: Please note I posted this before seeing JuiceIsLoose's most recent comment

no worries

28 minutes ago, Horns said:

Totally agree on what you say about the Harrier - had I realized it was supposed to be out of EA since 2020 and/or seen the related thread I would have never bought the SA map. I'm just glad I saw it before buying the Mudhen.

Go mention that on the RB discord. But better wear a bullet proof vest and be ready to hit the dirt pretty fast

25 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

What I linked was a link to my post. And followed it with “This is the forum post that Nineline is following and has been responding to. Would encourage people to again respectfully voice their concerns”. What image discord pulls from the forum link I can’t control. 

Maybe, maybe not. Whatever you say, sir.

5 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I assume this is why its still shown on RAZBAM's own website and a link directing people to ED Store.

Exactly THIS! Crying on their discord why the module is still on sale on the ED homepage while still linking it on their own homepage, is (IMPO) hypocritical.

[tribbin]

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I am not sure what continued sales of the module have to do with anything when the goal is to solve this and move forward. Removing it from sale would be more of an issue and show less confidence in a solution. I assume this is why its still shown on RAZBAM's own website and a link directing people to ED Store.

I'm not someone to jump on early access modules anymore, but in this Eagle case there is a real possibility that there is a limited time that I am able to enjoy it in multiplayer with the latest version of DCS.

If I knew I could refund when the situation concludes that this is the end-of-the-line, I would buy the F-15 now and keep it in case this dispute ends with a fizzle.

However, when asking about the nebulous 'per-case' purchase/refund policy on ED Discord, people say I'm abusing the refund policy and basically call me a bad person for it.

Only recently I'm informed about such risks regarding third-party, but if I'd stumble upon the Eagle on Steam two months ago I'd have no way of knowing about this whole ordeal.

I really think that is not fair.

[Dav IRL]

I have bought a huge amount of ED content going back 15 years and never once requested a refund. 

I am hoping they can get their affairs in order on both sides because a positive outcome is dearly needed. 

[Blackeye]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

I am not sure what continued sales of the module have to do with anything when the goal is to solve this and move forward.

If ED is confident enough to keep selling breaking modules with no solution in sight, they should be confident enough to back this up by a promise to refund the money (not credits). Otherwise it really starts to look like a convenient excuse to swipe money from unsuspecting customers.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Blackeye

[Snappy]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

I am not sure what continued sales of the module have to do with anything when the goal is to solve this and move forward. Removing it from sale would be more of an issue and show less confidence in a solution. I assume this is why its still shown on RAZBAM's own website and a link directing people to ED Store.

Well you can always resume sales once the situation is successfully resolved if you are so optimistic. 

However continuing to sell it (as well as the now broken Mirage) while the development and bugfixing has definitely stopped for the foreseeable future and while ED refuses to give any situation update simply leaves a very bad impression of ED,  since neither product matches store description anymore. Its borderline false advertising as of now.

Effectively the customers do not get what they pay you for anymore.

That is bad.

The very very least ED should&could do is to put a clearly visible disclaimer on both store product pages outlining the present situation so that potential new customers can make an informed decision. This is really a no-brainer.

Same goes for Razbam btw.

Even Casmo now pulled his Strike Eagle content from YT to stop luring in new customers.Sensible guy obviously.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Snappy

[Wizard_03]

20 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

If ED is confident enough to keep selling breaking modules with no solution in sight, they should be confident enough to back this up by a promise to refund the money (not credits). Otherwise it really starts to look like a convenient excuse to swipe money from unsuspecting customers.

 

I completely agree, if they can have a disclaimer on the support page. They certainly can say we stand by our customers. 

[Atazar SPN]

hace 2 horas, VpR81 dijo:

Afraid of recieving flak over there? Don´t tell me you haven´t seen this sh*t (inlcuding racist stuff like "in the end, they´re still russians") on the RB forum getting tolerated by the RB mods (wich means, they go along with hate speech, personal attacks and this form of racism).

Perhaps the racism you speak of is inverse and what is really happening has to do with slight doses of Hispanophobia.

[Horns]

1 hour ago, VpR81 said:

Go mention that on the RB discord. But better wear a bullet proof vest and be ready to hit the dirt pretty fast

If you'd like some entertainment, check out the Harrier channel there now  No one has replied yet...

[Atazar SPN]

hace 1 hora, VpR81 dijo:

I´m not taling about you, but the overall attitude and tone on the RB discord. Including the racist bs.

The same thing that happened to you on the RB Discord happened to me on the ED forum. Can I say it's about racism?

[Hammer1-1]

2 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

The same thing that happened to you on the RB Discord happened to me on the ED forum. Can I say it's about racism?

This is idiotic. What is so racist calling russians "russians"?  This garbage has to stop. This be the decade the politically correct destroyed the world.

[JuiceIsLoose]

We should try to bring the discussion back to the issue. Not what happens in other discords, either one. We need one forum to stay open for communication. 

[Malakhit]

29 minutes ago, Snappy said:

Well you can always resume sales once the situation is successfully resolved if you are so optimistic. 

However continuing to sell it (as well as the now broken Mirage) while the development and bugfixing has definitely stopped for the foreseeable future and while ED refuses to give any situation update simply leaves a very bad impression of ED,  since neither product matches store description anymore. Its borderline false advertising as of now.

Effectively the customers do not get what they pay you for anymore.

That is bad.

The very very least ED should&could do is to put a clearly visible disclaimer on both store product pages outlining the present situation so that potential new customers can make an informed decision. This is really a no-brainer.

Same goes for Razbam btw.

Even Casmo now pulled his Strike Eagle content from YT to stop luring in new customers.Sensible guy obviously.

 

Well put, Snappy.

I have reached out to Razbam, and it would appear that they had forgotten to update their webstore in some time. They reached out to the folks in charge of their webstore, and are hopefully now discussing next steps.