What did I think of Kiowa? It needs to improve in some areas!

[Hotdognz]

Interesting , how it was possible? This is an interesting solution, although I would not like to part with any module from Razbam - M2000, Harrier, F-15E, MiG-19 or SA map (I like it all!), but Im afraid that a some future patch for DCS will break something and ultimately the model will be unusable because no one will solve the issue .... I was thought that this might involve replacing the module but from ED, not 3rd parties.

I asked for a refund based on the current situation, I got a store credit, that will do nicely for another module at some point

Sent from my TB350FU using Tapatalk

[LuseKofte]

39 minutes ago, Hotdognz said:

Well we had 10 of them flying around TTi server all having a blast, not one person cared about the lower poly model

I did see it in videos. It sure did not come unexpected. And I think most people bought it with this in mind. Some do remind me of Huey textures, like old. But I don’t think it’s real cockpit was exiting either. To me it looks like a sufficient used workstation

[shagrat]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Romandv:

Just look at when the first development news was, it's just been a long time, so the textures may not be up to date. If the module flies and works well, but expectations of graphics were a bit different, it's better that way than the other way around.

Do you really think they didn't update the textures, never introduced normal maps and improved the 3D Model in 5-6 years of development, while the DCS graphics engine was overhauled two times and forced all existing modules to adjust? Really?

vor 13 Minuten schrieb LuseKofte:

I did see it in videos. It sure did not come unexpected. And I think most people bought it with this in mind. Some do remind me of Huey textures, like old. But I don’t think it’s real cockpit was exiting either. To me it looks like a sufficient used workstation

It actually looks very close to what I see in that picture...

[Sarge55]

I refunded the F-4 but didn’t know I could refund the F-15E. Thanks for that info. 
I actually liked the F-15E but since it’s going to be abandoned I better refund it as well.

I’ll use the refunds for the Kiowa. 

[ECTAE]

1 hour ago, AdrianL said:

ED refunds you with store credit (Only on ED store). So when you purchase any new module, you tell it to use the store credit and then pay the remaining difference (If any).

I refunded the F-15E and bought the Kiowa this way

Same

[ThorBrasil]

42 minutes ago, shagrat said:

Do you really think they didn't update the textures, never introduced normal maps and improved the 3D Model in 5-6 years of development, while the DCS graphics engine was overhauled two times and forced all existing modules to adjust? Really?

It actually looks very close to what I see in that picture...

With this thought in mind, we should receive the updated external 3D model with high-resolution textures in the next 5 to 6 years? Then the module should be released in early access with a discount of 30% or more.

 

 

[Jarhead0331]

14 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

My friend, I apologize if you were offended. Maybe it's the difference in culture, because in my culture people don't get offended by what I said. I'll try to explain better. I have nothing against Casmo and I admire him for having flown a Kiowa and even an Apache. The way you referred to him is that whatever he says, you will accept blindly. You won't question anything, argue, ask questions. I'm not talking about the systems, because I know that Kiowa must be representing them faithfully. In all of his videos, the product presented would be a developer version and did not represent the final product, but all the defects that I pointed out were visible in his videos and in the end we received the same product. So once again, I didn't mean to offend him.

My friend, I wasn't offended. I guess it could be the cultural difference, although I am not sure what planet you may be from. In my culture, we show respect and we pay attention to Subject Matter Experts. We just have intelligence and common sense. I'll spell out my point for you, since you clearly misunderstood. No, if Casmo jumped off a bridge, I wouldn't follow, because that would just be dumb. However, when it comes to the quality of the Kiowa in DCS and its authenticity compared to the real thing, I'm inclined to pay attention to a guy who has more than 2,000 hours flying the airframe...in combat too. To ignore the information provided by someone with that kind of experience and think that my judgment could possibly be better when it comes to those things is what we would call in my culture, foolish.

But you're a dude with a computer from another planet, who must know better and who would rather just complain about what you perceive as sound and graphics issues instead of focusing on the module as a simulation, so rock on!

Edited June 6, 2024 by Jarhead0331

[ThorBrasil]

1 minute ago, Jarhead0331 said:

My friend, I wasn't offended. I guess it could be the cultural difference, although I am not sure what planet you may be from. In my culture, we show respect and we pay attention to Subject Matter Experts. We just have intelligence and common sense. I'll spell out my point for you, since you clearly misunderstood. No, if Casmo jumped off a bridge, I wouldn't follow, because that would just be dumb. However, when it comes to the quality of the Kiowa in DCS and its authenticity compared to the real thing, I'm inclined to pay attention to a guy who has more than 2,000 hours flying the airframe...in combat too. To ignore the information provided by someone with that kind of experience and think that my judgment could possibly be better when it comes to those things is what we would call in my culture, foolish.

But you're a dude with a computer who must know better so rock on!

I'm glad you weren't offended. I wasn't either, so everyone should go their separate ways in peace.

[ThorBrasil]

A user commented that Kiowa has more FPS than Apache because it has a low polygon model, but he deleted the comment. Here's a video for him.

 

[EvilBert VR]

8 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

With this thought in mind, we should receive the updated external 3D model with high-resolution textures in the next 5 to 6 years? Then the module should be released in early access with a discount of 30% or more.

 

 

Thor, as much as I understand YOUR personal subjective impresion, as less do I understand your missing objective assessment in regards of the external overall appearance.
Just for my understanding: Are you using the helicopter to seriously take part in missions or campaigns on MP servers (or even as a SP?) to make use of all the implemented systems that THIS Kiowa festures that gives so much benefits on the battlefield? Have you even tried them out yet especially in multicrew (which I doubt but correct me if I state wrong)?
Or are you more like a gameplayer just flying around in externeal view without bothering the features or systems in this bird?

Sorry for beeing sarcastic here but it is called: Digital Combat SIMULATOR and not Digital Eyecandy Presenter.

Don't get me wrong. As I stated above I do respect your own personal subjective impression but I'm getting the thought you want to convince the rest of this great community that your truth is the one and only. 
Of course: Everybody is lurking for a great exterior and fine modelled interiour. And IMO PC did a fantastic job on this not beeing behind other modules, especially in comparison to the AH-64D or the awesome F-4!
It is all about of what one want or of what one doesn't want to see.

But hey: I am fortunate that you can explain your points to me and the rest of the comunity based on your facts and on your knowledge of detailing pixels in accordance of those screnshots taken of the modules you took for comparison (Kiowa F-4 and AH-64)

Cheers

 

[ThorBrasil]

4 minutes ago, EvilBert VR said:

Thor, as much as I understand YOUR personal subjective impresion, as less do I understand your missing objective assessment in regards of the external overall appearance.
Just for my understanding: Are you using the helicopter to seriously take part in missions or campaigns on MP servers (or even as a SP?) to make use of all the implemented systems that THIS Kiowa festures that gives so much benefits on the battlefield? Have you even tried them out yet especially in multicrew (which I doubt but correct me if I state wrong)?
Or are you more like a gameplayer just flying around in externeal view without bothering the features or systems in this bird?

Sorry for beeing sarcastic here but it is called: Digital Combat SIMULATOR and not Digital Eyecandy Presenter.

Don't get me wrong. As I stated above I do respect your own personal subjective impression but I'm getting the thought you want to convince the rest of this great community that your truth is the one and only. 
Of course: Everybody is lurking for a great exterior and fine modelled interiour. And IMO PC did a fantastic job on this not beeing behind other modules, especially in comparison to the AH-64D or the awesome F-4!
It is all about of what one want or of what one doesn't want to see.

But hey: I am fortunate that you can explain your points to me and the rest of the comunity based on your facts and on your knowledge of detailing pixels in accordance of those screnshots taken of the modules you took for comparison (Kiowa F-4 and AH-64)

Cheers

 

So my friend. With this mindset, DCS should never have received all the graphical improvements. If the modules are having a high quality release standard, it is normal for everyone to go down this path. It is as I said before, new products will be released and the graphics part is something that weighs on many DCS users. It is not for nothing that I abandoned BMS because of the graphics and now the community is striving to improve it. If it was going to be released in this state, it would have been better to have released it as early access. That way you could say "Early access is not for you, wait for the final product."... If I paid for a complete product, the minimum should be complete. Unless Polychoop is not going to update the 3D model and textures and it will stay like this forever. If graphics didn't matter, nVidia would stop releasing graphics cards with high processing power and games would be Minecraft for all eternity.

[LuseKofte]

2 hours ago, YoYo said:

Interesting , how it was possible? This is an interesting solution, although I would not like to part with any module from Razbam - M2000, Harrier, F-15E, MiG-19 or SA map (I like it all!), but Im afraid that a some future patch for DCS will break something and ultimately the model will be unusable because no one will solve the issue .... I was thought that this might involve replacing the module but from ED, not 3rd parties.

 

You worry too much. I am not taking that real world feeling into this game. 
I do this in order to get away from reality. Some take a joint, I fly. 
I do not own the F 15. But love the Harrier. Never remember what it’s US name is. 
I want you to enjoy the game, because you made a good campaign for the hind. 
 

[EvilBert VR]

12 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

So my friend. With this mindset, DCS should never have received all the graphical improvements. If the modules are having a high quality release standard, it is normal for everyone to go down this path. It is as I said before, new products will be released and the graphics part is something that weighs on many DCS users. It is not for nothing that I abandoned BMS because of the graphics and now the community is striving to improve it. If it was going to be released in this state, it would have been better to have released it as early access. That way you could say "Early access is not for you, wait for the final product."... If I paid for a complete product, the minimum should be complete. Unless Polychoop is not going to update the 3D model and textures and it will stay like this forever. If graphics didn't matter, nVidia would stop releasing graphics cards with high processing power and games would be Minecraft for all eternity.

Nobody stated that graphics didn't matter! And being one of the old salts that has been using Simulators (or even games) since C64 times I surely am happy of how graphics have evolved since those days. 
But propably you do not understand the complexity of how it works within DCS or other any software. ED and all third party devs HAVE to find a ballance (programmmingwise) based on available and comonly spread hardware outfits, the systems integratenion and graphic among other things. If you don't care about systems and just want eyecandy in the highest most likely photorealistic  resolution, well then you should go and look for something else but DCS. If you're looking for the best way to cumulate the points mentioned above, DCS (with its modules) is the place to be!

Unfortunately you did not respond to my questions asked. If you feel offended by the (as you said) "low poly graphics" of the module, ok.  Yikes: I forgot it's not the graphics! It's the circumstance that they dared to release it that way...... C'mon bro! Seriously?

But please tell me: What is that you like the most about the Kiowa? And please share your thoughts about the comparison pictures I put up with us!

[YoYo]

27 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

You worry too much. I am not taking that real world feeling into this game. 
I do this in order to get away from reality. Some take a joint, I fly. 
I do not own the F 15. But love the Harrier. Never remember what it’s US name is. 
I want you to enjoy the game, because you made a good campaign for the hind. 
 

Generally, I don't want to get rid of anything from Razbam, despite all the fuss, I think I'd rather spend real money on Kiowa than replace it. Every module from Razbam that I have is worth what I spent, even today.

[LuseKofte]

50 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

So my friend. With this mindset, DCS should never have received all the graphical improvements

This is trolling. And baiting. You know perfectly well what people mean to say. Good try though. 

[Mainstay]

58 minutes ago, EvilBert VR said:

Thor, as much as I understand YOUR personal subjective impresion, as less do I understand your missing objective assessment in regards of the external overall appearance.
Just for my understanding: Are you using the helicopter to seriously take part in missions or campaigns on MP servers (or even as a SP?) to make use of all the implemented systems that THIS Kiowa festures that gives so much benefits on the battlefield? Have you even tried them out yet especially in multicrew (which I doubt but correct me if I state wrong)?
Or are you more like a gameplayer just flying around in externeal view without bothering the features or systems in this bird?

Sorry for beeing sarcastic here but it is called: Digital Combat SIMULATOR and not Digital Eyecandy Presenter.

Don't get me wrong. As I stated above I do respect your own personal subjective impression but I'm getting the thought you want to convince the rest of this great community that your truth is the one and only. 
Of course: Everybody is lurking for a great exterior and fine modelled interiour. And IMO PC did a fantastic job on this not beeing behind other modules, especially in comparison to the AH-64D or the awesome F-4!
It is all about of what one want or of what one doesn't want to see.

But hey: I am fortunate that you can explain your points to me and the rest of the comunity based on your facts and on your knowledge of detailing pixels in accordance of those screnshots taken of the modules you took for comparison (Kiowa F-4 and AH-64)

Cheers

 

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. Good for the ones not caring what it looks like.... i mean if you wanna fly a carton box with rotors on top to keep the poly count low to get better FPS be my guest. But i want the best of both worlds and demand nothing less for myself. Have you looked at the F-4 Phantom from within the pit and external? Man that sort of passion in developing gives me goosebumps! That's what i want as a customer. I'm spending a fortune on hardware because i want the quality that most can offer and that's fine because its my passion as well.

 

In all honesty i cant judge on the flight model and systems implemented since i don't have the module. And as far as i can see people are pretty positive and happy about it, kudos and good job to Polychop for the hard work and dedication in this department.

But that doesn't mean that we cant give feedback or base our choices on buying a module because A: The price is really high compared to other modules and B: The external module (graphics and damage) model are far behind other developers.

 

Anyways i hope Polychop  can bring this beautiful helicopter to the same standard as other modules in the eye-candy department and then they will have another customer to their list. 

[LuseKofte]

18 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

mean if you wanna fly a carton box with rotors on top to keep the poly count low to get better FPS be my guest

Again subjective hostile and just an abnormal description made for dis inform people not bought it yet. I have very big doubts in what motivate you to keep doing this. 
Your description is at best dumb

[Mainstay]

16 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Again subjective hostile and just an abnormal description made for dis inform people not bought it yet. I have very big doubts in what motivate you to keep doing this. 
Your description is at best dumb

Nothing hostile about it, depends on the reader how to interpreter what i wrote. I said what i said and even credit them so...  

Your last sentence says more about you then me i guess.

Have a nice day sir

[LuseKofte]

36 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

Nothing hostile about it,

What I quoted, yes it was. A very simplistic exaggeration of a pretty good module. By pretty good I mean there probably faults and not best textures involved. But to me this is quite good. Even enjoyable. But it is too early to judge

[Furious]

What's that voice I hear in cockpit all the time - bloody annoying, and I can't understand a word it says

[ThorBrasil]

11 minutes ago, Furious said:

What's that voice I hear in cockpit all the time - bloody annoying, and I can't understand a word it says

Go to page 166 of the manual located in the DCS folder. The equipment is called AN/APR-39 Radar Detection.
X:\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\OH-58D\Doc

 

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by ThorBrasil

[durka-durka]

24 minutes ago, Furious said:

What's that voice I hear in cockpit all the time - bloody annoying, and I can't understand a word it says

It's Betty's brother Wilbur. He's a smoker.

[Furious]

My God - it is Wall-E. On 40 a day.

[LuseKofte]

2 hours ago, Furious said:

What's that voice I hear in cockpit all the time - bloody annoying, and I can't understand a word it says

It means you have not let the system test itself or not followed the start procedure. If correct it shut up pretty soon. 

[=Pedro=]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:50 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

My initial impressions:

- Mind you this is from the Caucasus Free Flight IA mission: I only flew around for a bit then landed again - 

 

1. Very fun and easy to fly;
2. The 'feeling' of flight is great: small helo with excellent visibility all around and it felt great to 'sit' in the cockpit;
2. Sound volume is too low compared to other modules, especially given the lack of doors. It would be great if this could be adjusted to match the sound level of the UH-1 with open doors - as far as this comparison holds true comparing the real aircraft;
3. There are some clipping issues with the pilot models: the pilot's left thumb clips through the throttle, and the copilot's right wrist doesn't fully render. It looks like it's made of paper and twisted 180 degrees around the longitudinal axis (sorry for the poor analogy but this is what it looked like to me);
4. I agree with previous posters about the texture quality. We have been spoiled really (especially recently) so while there's nothing wrong with the textures per se, comparatively they are lower quality than other recent releases (this is something I already noticed from watching Casmo's videos and now confirmed for myself);
5. The framerate was quite a bit lower than with other modules. For proper testing I'd need to place a hotstart aircraft on an empty map - which I will do later - but I only got 33-35 fps on that IA free flight mission, which is much lower than I'd expect. On initial release the Phantom gave me 45 fps for example in IA missions.


*edit*
To expand on point (5) above, I made a quick hotstart mission (empty map with runway start) with various modules for quick comparison (circumstances are exactly the same for every aircraft):
Kiowa - 32 fps
Apache - 38 fps
Hind - 35 fps
Gazelle - 38 fps
And for comparison, F-4 Phantom - 43 fps

 

As soon as I start the avionics, fps dropping down badly.