Force feedback Joystick from Moza

[Thadiun Okona]

4 hours ago, zcaa0g said:

I hope this supports DirectX FFB as opposed to relying exclusively on a proprietary API that only works for specific titles.  I haven't seen an official word on this, but I get it's early still.

The first video of it posted (Blu Gaming?) showed the software towards the end. There's a page with the usual sliders (spring/damping/inertia/friction/gain..) for DirectInput and with a checkbox for telemetry mode that has a separate page of sliders to adjust. I'm sure the DI version works the same as any other stick using it and as of now it's anyone's guess how well or not the telemetry tools work.

[propeler]

6 hours ago, zcaa0g said:

I hope this supports DirectX FFB as opposed to relying exclusively on a proprietary API that only works for specific titles.  I haven't seen an official word on this, but I get it's early still.

You relay too much on what DirectX FFB could propose. Current implementation of FFB even in DCS for most crafts is extremely rudimentary... So I would better have good telemetry then DirectX support. At least telemetry allows to produce variety of effects DCS do not produce via DirectX FFB.

[zcaa0g]

1 hour ago, propeler said:

You relay too much on what DirectX FFB could propose. Current implementation of FFB even in DCS for most crafts is extremely rudimentary... So I would better have good telemetry then DirectX support. At least telemetry allows to produce variety of effects DCS do not produce via DirectX FFB.

I want it more for other older titles, not specifically DCS.

[rapid]

Looks like Spudknocker aint happy with the Moza FFB Base!

 

Spudknocker1 day ago

Preliminary Moza FFB Base Review! Hey Guys! I know a lot of you guys out there have heard that I have gotten ahold of a Moza FFB to review, and I wanted to give you guys a preliminary review to help you decide if you’d like to preorder the base or not while I work on a full video. Bottom Line: DO NOT PREORDER I have run into a number of blocking issues with the Moza Base at this point and I am still working with the company to resolve these issues. - Mounting Solutions: As you can see in these photos the current desk mounting solution for the Moza Base is Wholly Inadequate and does not bring the base down low enough for comfortable usage. - The stick being mounted so high up means you cannot rest your forearm on your thigh as you fly limiting fine control inputs, and causing arm fatigue/elbow pain while flying. This is important in any stick but it’s particularly significant with FFB. - Mount does not allow full stick travel: the mount in its current form does not allow full stick forward travel, the stick will run into the mount before hitting its full length of travel. And while it’s absolutely GRINDS MY GEARS to see DCS players push enough negative G’s to pop Sean Tucker’s eyeballs out, this is definitely an issue. -The base as it’s currently mounted is FAR too wide and pushes my knees/thighs too far apart to easily manipulate my rudder pedals. - Base Does not allow for a slight 5ish Degree twist to the stick, this creates an extremely weird feeling while flying having your wrist cocked the right just to reach stick buttons, and is wholly unrealistic. While this post may seem overly negative I am still extremely excited at the prospect of Force Feedback sticks returning to the market after the downfall of the patent trolls. I am still working with Moza to fix the mounting issues, and am definitely open to revising my stance on the base in the future! Thanks for your support guys!

 

 

[MAXsenna]

Well, seems more of a mounting issue, which is very strange, if he got the mounting from Moza. So, if Moza found it smart to have this guy as a tester, I think I'll pass.

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[SVgamer72]

Complains about the mount and says nothing about the software or DCS telemetry support (which is what really matters). Peak YouTube.....

[MAXsenna]

Complains about the mount and says nothing about the software or DCS telemetry support (which is what really matters). Peak YouTube.....

Well, he ain't an engineer, that's for sure.

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[rapid]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, seems more of a mounting issue, which is very strange, if he got the mounting from Moza. So, if Moza found it smart to have this guy as a tester, I think I'll pass.

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Got me nervous now about my order now! If he finds this awkward wait till he see's the Taurus it's massive.

2 hours ago, SVgamer72 said:

Complains about the mount and says nothing about the software or DCS telemetry support (which is what really matters). Peak YouTube.....

This what I was thinking. I know he wants to do a full review but at least throw us a bone or something positive that he found. Just saying he is sponsored by Thrustmaster so maybe they got something coming out soon? .

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, he ain't an engineer, that's for sure.

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THIS! made me laugh.

Edited July 11, 2024 by rapid

[MAXsenna]

Got me nervous now about my order

Tongue in cheek! I'm still on the fence.  

This what I was thinking. I know he wants to do a full review but at least throw us a bone or something positive that he found. Just saying he is sponsored by Thrustmaster so maybe they got something coming out soon? .

To be totally blunt. I expect him to watch a couple of other reviews first. And then adapt to his own show and style. (He's done this before). I'm positive he has no clue what FFB really is. He might never have touched one or even seen one before. Telemetry? That's probably above his pay grade. He's popular and brings people to DCS. I'll give him that. I did watch a lot of videos before, but it gets really old fast, and then there is the history. Has he published any pictures or videos of his stunt/competitive flying? I'm happy to be proven wrong. What about his airline career? Things went really really fast with this one. Old tricks die hard. 

[KeyserSoze62]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, seems more of a mounting issue, which is very strange, if he got the mounting from Moza. So, if Moza found it smart to have this guy as a tester, I think I'll pass.

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Agree and I'm not sure why he is focusing on the Moza desk mounts.  The first video of this thing that appeared online showed the guy easily mounting to his thrustmaster base on his sim rig. I can see the same mounting to my Monstertech rig with that base as a center stick and no problem getting it to a good position. Also curious why you wouldn't be able to twist the stick to a good angle unless its the Moza stick he was referring to?  My Virpil sticks should be easy to set at whatever angle I need on it. The connector has plenty of flexibility.

[rapid]

Here is the way Spudknocker has mounted his Moza FFB.

He is a cool guy I just think he has jumped the gun a bit in his quick early review.

null

[Hiob]

I really don't get it. People spend tons of money (at least in theory) to get a "realistic" force feedback stick - and then proceed to use a desk mount with no extension whatsoever.
Use a proper extension, a proper throw limiter and mount it lower between your legs, where it belongs. Most of the (physical) problems are instantly solved and we can go back to the real issue - which is the software.

[Aapje]

20 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I really don't get it. People spend tons of money (at least in theory) to get a "realistic" force feedback stick - and then proceed to use a desk mount with no extension whatsoever.

He got it for free to do a review, because he has 70k subscribers and Moza uses this as cheap marketing.

We will get bunch of early reviews by people with no clue, and hopefully also a few by people with half or even a full clue.

[Nightdare]

I don't get it, he warns people not to jump in just yet (or in the very least shows some shortcomings when 'amateurs' try to incorporate this in their setup)

...and this is somehow wrong?

[Slippa]

I still fancy the Warbird base. Thinking of getting one with an extension for the Warthog stick.

The Moza looks too chunky for desk mounting to me. Probably better floor mounted or low in a pit?

It’s not an option for me yet as my kit won’t support FFB but I wouldn’t mind it when I’ve upgraded. FFB that is.

[Cab]

23 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

I don't get it, he warns people not to jump in just yet (or in the very least shows some shortcomings when 'amateurs' try to incorporate this in their setup)

...and this is somehow wrong?

I've been wondering this myself. According the Moza website, it's the OEM desk mount so why bust his balls for using it as intended and reporting the shortcomings?

[MAXsenna]

I don't get it, he warns people not to jump in just yet (or in the very least shows some shortcomings when 'amateurs' try to incorporate this in their setup)
...and this is somehow wrong?

Because he is an amateur that is doing it wrong. No wonder he can't reach the pedals with the Virpil base mounted like that.
@Hiob is correct. The base should be lower than your legs, and the extension between them. Not sure why Moza sendt him that ridiculous desk mount anyway. So I'll give him a pass on that one.

Edit: It just dawned on me looking at the second picture, regarding the Virpil base. Is he straight out lying?
From his own text:"The stick being mounted so high up means you cannot rest your forearm on your thigh as you fly limiting fine control inputs, and causing arm fatigue/elbow pain while flying."
From his text: "

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[Hiob]

I don't have a particular problem with spudknocker - not even blaiming him for this "review-ish" comment on the Moza.

It's just - every tool can be crap when you don't use it properly.

[Cab]

3 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I don't have a particular problem with spudknocker - not even blaiming him for this "review-ish" comment on the Moza.

It's just - every tool can be crap when you don't use it properly.

Properly? He's using it as designed and informing people about design shortcomings.

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, Cab said:

Properly? He's using it as designed and informing people about design shortcomings.

Well, to each his own. In my opinion using such a FFB base with a desk mount and vitually no extension is like grabbing a hammer by the head and driving in the nails with the shaft.

[Cab]

8 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Because he is an amateur that is doing it wrong. No wonder he can't reach the pedals with the Virpil base mounted like that.
@Hiob is correct. The base should be lower than your legs, and the extension between them. Not sure why Moza sendt him that ridiculous desk mount anyway. So I'll give him a pass on that one.

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Wrong? Looks to me like he has it installed exactly like Moza intends. And the Virpil base is almost certainly there to highlight the size of the Moza base.

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

Well, to each his own. In my opinion using such a FFB base with a desk mount and vitually no extension is like grabbing a hammer by the head and driving in the nails with the shaft.

Oh, I agree 100%. In fact, I've already sketched out a custom mounting solution for myself.

But that's not what a majority of the people will be thinking when they pre-order this. And those are the people he's trying to reach.

[Nightdare]

2 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Well, to each his own. In my opinion using such a FFB base with a desk mount and vitually no extension is like grabbing a hammer by the head and driving in the nails with the shaft.

I'm with @Cab on this one, kindly point out what he's doing wrong instead of making it out as if FFB is only supposed to be for the Elite Simmers among us

He's using the means Monza has given him and they are not correct, they aren't incorrectly assembled, they are by design incorrect

If Moza wants to reach an as large as possible market, they are also gonna have to be able to sell this to people below "dedicated simpit builders"

[Hiob]

5 minutes ago, Cab said:

Wrong? Looks to me like he has it installed exactly like Moza intends. And the Virpil base is almost certainly there to highlight the size of the Moza base.

That's kind of the point we're trying to make here. Both Moza (who should have thoroughly thought about that beforehand) and Spud (whom I don't blame for it) are doing a disservice to the product that is not fit to showcase its strength or (real) weaknesses.

[javelina1]

I've always flown F-16 style, so my stick has always been to the right of me, for all aircraft.   So if I had an FFB, I'd have it off to right....   Been using a WarBRD (and TM stick), no issues getting to my crosswinds.   Will continue to watch and assess these products as they come out.  He's one opinion/data point, so I take it as such...

[Nightdare]

34 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Because he is an amateur

...Which most of us are

 

34 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

that is doing it wrong. No wonder he can't reach the pedals with the Virpil base mounted like that.

OR he put the Virpil mount next to the Moza (which IS in the correct position) to quickly compare the 2?

Just a hunch, or do you also mount 2 sticks next to each other for better flying?

 

That he isn't able to reach his pedals may be because the base is too wide when having it in your crotch

 

34 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

@Hiob is correct. The base should be lower than your legs, and the extension between them. Not sure why Moza sendt him that ridiculous desk mount anyway. So I'll give him a pass on that one.

@Hiob 's observation is on point, but is simply ignoring that the desk and deskmount don't allow for that, if the 'average simmer' wants to incorprate this, he might be screwed and it's a good thing Spudknockerpointed this out

and AFAIK, it's easier to change a deskmount than a desk

 

34 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Edit: It just dawned on me looking at the second picture, regarding the Virpil base. Is he straight out lying?
From his own text:"The stick being mounted so high up means you cannot rest your forearm on your thigh as you fly limiting fine control inputs, and causing arm fatigue/elbow pain while flying."
From his text:

Are we not looking at the same picture? The Moza stick IS mounted higher than the Virpil (by at least an inch, maybe even two), which could make all the difference in being able to rest your hand or not

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by Nightdare