MSAA not working...hideous shimmering!

HR-Crumble · January 14

My original post was made around 7 months ago regarding this problem with MSAA and it's still so bad that the sim is unplayable even in 4k.
For those saying there isn't a problem why does reverting to an earlier version fix this non-existent bug? 2.9.5 works...2.9.6 does not!
I use an AMD 7900XTX and have spent many many hours trying to sort things out but to no avail.
I have invested a lot of time and money in to DCS and as I mentioned earlier have only fired the sim up to check if there has been a fix after an update but after 7 months...nothing!

I fully concur with you on the MSAA shimmering.

It’s so bad I had to move to TAA + FSR with scaling of 0.9 (doesn’t make any frame difference regardless of setting for me) and sharpening at 1.0.

Those are the only settings on a 7800XT I can ever get remotely looking good and sharp. But it suffers with horrendous ghosting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bucic · January 14

23 minutes ago, BladeRH15 said:

My original post was made around 7 months ago regarding this problem with MSAA and it's still so bad that the sim is unplayable even in 4k.

For those saying there isn't a problem why does reverting to an earlier version fix this non-existent bug? 2.9.5 works...2.9.6 does not!

I use an AMD 7900XTX and have spent many many hours trying to sort things out but to no avail.

I have invested a lot of time and money in to DCS and as I mentioned earlier have only fired the sim up to check if there has been a fix after an update but after 7 months...nothing!

Could you please share your dxdiag info, including dxdiag infos from several months ago, if possible?

jnr4817 · January 14

I've been testing DLAA vs DLSS, and with DLSS quality, I cannot tell a difference. What I can say is with DLSS quality my FPS allows stays above refresh rate and I have been able to max out view distance, textures, shadow, etc. I have not encountered any ghosting.

PawlaczGMD · January 16

I used to have this problem, and it was driving me crazy. The game looked like ass after some update, MSAA had no effect. Then, it fixed itself...

HansPeter1981 · January 18

Hello there. I've been battling this issue also for a long time. FSR & TAA = 0 Shimmering no flickering shadows and 59FPS 4k no matter how low you fly through dense forest. But a less detailed and not a sharp enough experience. The worst of FSR and TAA is that the shape of moving objects changes. I.e. wings and rotors at certain aspects appear and re appear. So not a solution at this point.

Common Nominator seems here MSAA and more often AMD hardware.
The one thing that helped the most In my case was to change Anisotropic Filtering to Enabled in the Adrenalin settings
It is disabled on default! Apparently it also affects DirectX11 the Tooltip with DirectX9 is outdated.

Also overwriting Antialiasing and setting Texture Filtering Qaulity to High can give you different results.

Other findings:

Track IR head movement at very sensitive settings can increase the shimmer effect If you pause Track IR it stops...

I have attached two Pictures of my Settings See If they do you any good. Its not perfect i.e. there is still some shadow flicker but much better then before.
I also like to Reset Shader Cache and delete the metashader2 and fxo content in the \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\ before I asses any changes...

Edited January 18 by HansPeter1981

HansPeter1981 · January 21

My apologies for posting twice in a row, yet I figured out (while searching for a solution for half sharp rendered shadows in vicinity of the aircraft while low to the ground) that
Shadows in general are the biggest contributor to flickering/shimmer.

Important setting to reduce shimmer the most possible while using MSAA:

Switching SSS to off is a big one especially if Clutter/Grass is set to a high value.
Turning Shadows / Terrain Object Shadows to Flat only (default shadows are rendered in such a poor quality that only DLSS or FSR can mask the flicker my assumption)

And if you have the VRAM switch Adrenaline Anti-Aliasing Setting to override application setting and 8xEQ

Edited January 21 by HansPeter1981
wrong file type picture

Bucic · January 21

@HansPeter1981You seem to be splitting hair. For most in this topić the shimmering is massive and is equivalent to MSAA being "almost off".

I can even see YouTubers being affected by this bug, despite the videos being decompressed twice.

BladeRH15 · January 29

Thanks to all those who have suggested ideas to help fix or at least lessen the impact of this bug...as that is what it is.

I have sent all of the requested files in to ED several times now and they either can't find the problem or it isn't a priority (both maybe). Believe me when I say that I've tried everything and spent far too much time trying to rectify this state of affairs without success.

I've been with DCS since the very first pre-order of the A-10 and have rarely had any game/sim stopping bugs or problems but this one just ruins the immersion for me as the 'jaggies' both in cockpit and with the scenery and shadows are very bad, I'm certain MSAA is not working at all for certain users and only partially for others. AMD users seem to be having more problems than Nvidia. For me this situation started with version 2.9.6 and as I've mentioned previously going back to 2.9.5 fixes the Jaggies.

I have hardly played DCS since version 2.9.6 and that is a big deal for me as I love the game/sim...but ED, that is it for me now!

I will patiently await the release of IL2 Korea and see how it goes.

[DE] T-Bone · February 2

I myself have recently become the owner of a 7900 XTX and also have the problem with MSAA. The picture was much better before with a 2070 S than now with MSAA.... FSR is not an alternative due to ghosting...

@Flappie

You were involved in the topic here and gave good tips. Unfortunately, driver reset and reinstallation did not help at all.

Has ED addressed the issue or not? Do you need more data?

Flappie · February 2

18 hours ago, [DE] T-Bone said:

Do you need more data?

Yes. Devs often need a way to reproduce issues in order to fix them. But I'm not able to reproduce this issue, and it seems other testers couldn't either (I couldn't find an internal report referring to MSAA not working).

Here's what it looks on my PC (1080 Ti):

18 hours ago, [DE] T-Bone said:

Unfortunately, driver reset and reinstallation did not help at all.

Have you tried purging "metashaders2" and "fxo" folders? What about resetting your GPU driver settings?

Right-click on your desktop and select AMD Radeon Settings.
Click the Preferences tab.
Select Restore Factory Defaults.

MSAA_test.trk

Edited February 3 by Flappie

Bucic · February 3

11 hours ago, Flappie said:

Yes. Devs often need a way to reproduce issues in order to fix them. But I'm not able to reproduce this issue, and it seems other testers couldn't either (I couldn't find an internal report referring to MSAA not working).

Here's what it looks on my PC (1080 Ti):

Have you tried purging "metashaders2" and "fxo" folders? What about resetting your GPU driver settings?

Right-click on your desktop and select AMD Radeon Settings.

Click the Preferences tab.

Select Restore Factory Defaults.

MSAA_test.trk 50.51 kB · 4 downloads

nVidia user here. I won't be resetting driver settings for that but I did clear out the "metashaders2" and "fxo" folders. I even had a studio driver update in the meantime. The difference is very clear - pre vs post breakage. Yes, there may be some difference between off and MSAA x4 but to a rather little degree. The best indicator is the F-5E under-HUD console. When you're affected and have head bob enabled for the cockpit view you get a constant marching shimmering on that console.

Flappie · February 3

10 minutes ago, Bucic said:

nVidia user here. I won't be resetting driver settings for that but I did clear out the "metashaders2" and "fxo" folders. I even had a studio driver update in the meantime. The difference is very clear - pre vs post breakage. Yes, there may be some difference between off and MSAA x4 but to a rather little degree. The best indicator is the F-5E under-HUD console. When you're affected and have head bob enabled for the cockpit view you get a constant marching shimmering on that console.

A track would be welcome.

@[DE] T-Bone Since you've just changed your GPU, ensure your former GPU driver is completely uninstalled. You can use DDU.

[DE] T-Bone · February 3

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

A track would be welcome.

@[DE] T-Bone Since you've just changed your GPU, ensure your former GPU driver is completely uninstalled. You can use DDU.

Thanks for your feedback and tips, I have already implemented some of the points. I will reply in more detail tonight about what has been done so far.

Bucic · February 3

3 hours ago, Flappie said:

A track would be welcome.

@[DE] T-Bone Since you've just changed your GPU, ensure your former GPU driver is completely uninstalled. You can use DDU.

Yeah, I got it on my today's to-do list.

Edited February 3 by Bucic

GumidekCZ · February 3

THIS IS SPARTA!!!! oh sorry no, THIS IS UGLY!!!!

I also did a clean AMD driver instalation to be sure.

@BIGNEWY open the picture and look at the edges. ED needs to improve this. This is really a killer of DCS graphics.

Display resolution doesnt matter as I check my old screenshots.

Edited February 4 by GumidekCZ

[DE] T-Bone · February 3

21 hours ago, Flappie said:

Yes. Devs often need a way to reproduce issues in order to fix them. But I'm not able to reproduce this issue, and it seems other testers couldn't either (I couldn't find an internal report referring to MSAA not working).

Here's what it looks on my PC (1080 Ti):

Have you tried purging "metashaders2" and "fxo" folders? What about resetting your GPU driver settings?

Right-click on your desktop and select AMD Radeon Settings.

Click the Preferences tab.

Select Restore Factory Defaults.

MSAA_test.trk 50.51 kB · 4 downloads

The following was done:

Delete metashader and fxo folder -> No improvement
Reset to factory settings -> No improvement
Uninstall the driver with DDU + reinstall -> No improvement

It is still a very angular image at the edges with msaa, as described by other users. See pictures.

I have the impression that there is almost no difference between MSAA Off, 2x and 4x. Also, it looks like certain angles are not being processed properly as some spots look fine.

Something is not right here.

Edited February 3 by [DE] T-Bone

Bucic · February 4

Track and dcs.log included along with some screeenshots. Check out the wing-to fuselage fairing (trailing blending profile) on that C-17 against the bright background. There are 100% not-anti-aliased blocks of pixels there.

https://1drv.ms/f/c/66cf2646234394fc/EowPEn5iAQxCrDzmIbQQ_80Bp1jRvZTWnyfm5upSgGZikQ?e=FOKfn9

nVidia RTX 2070, nVidia Studio driver

MSAA 4x vs DLAA with 0.75 sharpening

@Flappie Please check your PM for the relevant DXdiag.

MoleUK · February 5

To put it bluntly: MSAA has never worked very well in DCS. The jaggies/shimmer are pretty bad, the problem is far far more noticeable in VR as well.

I don't think it's some bug of MSAA not working when it should be, but just that it doesn't work very well and never really has.

DLAA is pretty much the only thing that ever worked better for me. It annihilates the shimmer/jaggies, with minor ghosting as a tradeoff.

This unfortunately leaves AMD customers mostly left out, at least until ED implement XeSS if they choose to do so.

If however this ends up being a bug rather than simply a poor implementation (or one not suited to DCS), then it's been around for as long as I've been playing.

Edited February 5 by MoleUK

Mustang · February 5

Regarding AA I'd highly recommend using SGSSAA at 4x with DCS alongside with MSAA x4 ingame, you can toggle this easily via nVidia Profile Inspector - also make sure Negative LOD Bias is set to CLAMP (sorry AMD users I'm very out of touch with the Radeon cards and their software so I have no idea what an equivalent might be)

Edited February 5 by Mustang

Flappie · February 5

On 2/4/2025 at 7:35 PM, Bucic said:

Track and dcs.log included along with some screeenshots. Check out the wing-to fuselage fairing (trailing blending profile) on that C-17 against the bright background. There are 100% not-anti-aliased blocks of pixels there.

Thank you. I didn't see anything wrong in your DxDiag log, and I'm seeing what you see in your track. Some things are antialiased correctly and some things aren't.

As @MoleUK said, it's probably a limitation of the game engine. I'll ask devs about it.

Bucic · February 5

15 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Thank you. I didn't see anything wrong in your DxDiag log, and I'm seeing what you see in your track. Some things are antialiased correctly and some things aren't.

As @MoleUK said, it's probably a limitation of the game engine. I'll ask devs about it.

This is definitely a 2024 fall/winter regression. My DCS time is almost always an F-5E routine, same IA missions. I immediately noticed something's seriously off with MSAA. It's hard for me to narrow it down as I didn't update for about 3 months prior to F-5E Remastered release.

Bucic · February 8

On 2/5/2025 at 11:46 PM, Flappie said:

Thank you. I didn't see anything wrong in your DxDiag log, and I'm seeing what you see in your track. Some things are antialiased correctly and some things aren't.

As @MoleUK said, it's probably a limitation of the game engine. I'll ask devs about it.

Watch the first 8 seconds of this video. I don't even have to ask to know he's using MSAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WajlGAJFbrM

Flappie · February 8

6 minutes ago, Bucic said:

Watch the first 8 seconds of this video. I don't even have to ask to know he's using MSAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WajlGAJFbrM

Are you so sure about this? To me, it looks like he does not use anti-aliasing at all.

Czar66 · February 8

Hi. I've been following this thread for a few weeks now and I think some complaints about MSAA at 4x are a bit unrealistic.
MSAA is a 'not so great' anti aliasing method. It is expensive and, since DCS pre World, it produced shimmering.

On 2/3/2025 at 5:48 PM, [DE] T-Bone said:

I have the impression that there is almost no difference between MSAA Off, 2x and 4x

All these images you're running with MSAA on. Notice that MSAA can't cover some angles with geometry, while others, especially the shot on the tower, MSAA successfuly makes a smooth diagonal line on that lower rail section.

On 2/3/2025 at 5:48 PM, [DE] T-Bone said:

it looks like certain angles are not being processed properly as some spots look fine.

MSAA has been always like this. Its algorithm makes that effect.
I can't speak about the lower center shimmer on that lens rim in the Apache cockpit, as I don't own the module, but the rest is on par to what MSAA had provided throughout the years.

The method is quite old, although one of that preserves image quality best, trading a few shimmering here and there.

SSAA in the other hand is much more powerful than MSAA, if I remember correctly.

What I wrote is not related to be unable to turn MSAA on. Either 2x or 4x. I didn't had this issue.
What I point out is how MSAA lacks in the anti aliasing department. It is still good for pixel perfect spotting dots, but you're not getting Temporal Anti Aliasing or Downscaling solution like images.

Personal preference, I'm running with DLAA, even in 1080p with the sharpen slider just on the right spot. It produces a better image that what it would be with MSAA 4X, imo.
If you apply any sharpen filter on MSAA the problem of aliased geometry worsen.

This is a good read:

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/31801/what-are-the-differences-between-the-different-anti-aliasing-multisampling-set

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Anti-aliasing_(AA)

A few examples un edited with MSAA 4x. Old shots, circa 2020-2021...

I never played DCS without MSAA before DLAA arrived.