F-16 or F-18?

[av8orDave]

I know you said that landing on the carrier is a separate issue, but i'm gonna drag the conversation there anyway. 

Both aircraft are easy to fly, and both have relatively easy systems to manage. The F/A-18 has more weapon types in it's arsenal, so there is a bit more to learn. The F-16 has the HARM Targeting Sensor, which is one unique system, but really both aircraft are pretty straightforward / easy to learn.

The difference between these two aircraft is that one is carrier-capable, the other is not.

Learning to launch & recover is really very gratifying. Mastering a proper CASE 1 and CASE 3 approach is basically a whole world in itself, so whether you want to do this probably ought to dictate which one is the appropriate module to try to learn.

[mikko.1842]

12 hours ago, jimblue74 said:

In your opinion, is it easier to learn the F-16 or F-18 form? Obviously the issue of landing on an aircraft carrier is separate.

If you are in love with one of these 2 birds, the "easy-factor" is not relevant actually. Choose whichever you want to fly, whichever makes your heart beat faster, the differences are not big enough to be a stop.

[sirrah]

As others said;

Best advise is, to choose the aircraft you have the most affection to.

 

Also, you're asking this in the Viper subforum, so most answers here will probably be biased in favor of the Viper 

[Grodin]

F16 is easier by far. The systems depth is not even close, like half the stuff is still missing in the F16 and the ones that are modelled are much simpler. On the F18 you have million things more to learn and pretty much every system is more complicated. F18 has much more weapons, some of which are quite complicated to set up and use. All weapons in the F16 are very simple, no need to set up fuzing in the cockpit etc like you have to in f18. Not to mention the hotas controls, dogfight switch and saving pages makes F16 very intuitive and easy to learn and fly, with F18 you have million menus and submenus and most need a mouse click to get to.

F16 is also much simpler to fly, you dont need to control flaps, you dont trim for landings or takeoff.

I would say its easier to win a guns only dogfight and do low speed manouvering with F18, everything else is easier on F16.

[sirrah]

8 minutes ago, Grodin said:

F16 is also much simpler to fly, you dont need to control flaps, you dont trim for landings or takeoff.

Although both are really easy to fly, I don't agree the Viper is simpler.

For instance:

• You can't "throw" a Viper onto the ground, the way you can with a Hornet (in the Viper you'll have to properly flare or your landing gear will snap off)
• AAR in the Hornet is much more easy (at least that's my opinion)

 

But, same advise as your other thread in the Viper sub-forum: Just choose the aircraft you like most. As do all DCS full fidelity modules, both the Hornet and Viper will require you to invest time to get proficient with. If you just want to go pew pew and throw bombs and don't really fancy all the learning/training, you might be better off going for Flaming Cliffs (Maybe I'm misinterpreting and surely no offence meant, but your OP question kinda gives the impression you're not really into the learning part) 

[amalahama]

The Viper is the one that ED seems to care about lately, Hornet has been neglected for so long. Currently Viper is quite better simulated than Hornet, so better stick with it

Regards

[Q3ark]

F14 all the way dude
 

Its feature complete, stable, safe to learn because nothings going to change on you.

Edited July 22, 2024 by Q3ark

[Sniper_1-1]

On 7/18/2024 at 1:51 AM, Hulkbust44 said:

Yes, coming from the Hornet the Viper is a pain in the ass. Basic Functions are hidden deep in menu's and context. The A/G system logic is by far the worst of any aircraft, nothing fits together or makes sense. Like seriously, the mission computer limits employment modes based on the loaded weapons? In the 16, for things to work you must do things in this exact convoluted way...the Hornet is so much more flexible and allows you to get creative with the systems.

The fact that Weapon (WPN) Stores (SMS) and Inventory (INV)are all separate pages in the Viper is all you really need to know.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk
 

WPN page is only used for mavericks 

SMS is programming bombs and selecting modes

INV page is like sensor page in the hornet 

 

f 16 is easier because you can control all that on the hotas  

On 7/22/2024 at 1:47 AM, sirrah said:

Although both are really easy to fly, I don't agree the Viper is simpler.

For instance:

• You can't "throw" a Viper onto the ground, the way you can with a Hornet (in the Viper you'll have to properly flare or your landing gear will snap off)
• AAR in the Hornet is much more easy (at least that's my opinion)

 

But, same advise as your other thread in the Viper sub-forum: Just choose the aircraft you like most. As do all DCS full fidelity modules, both the Hornet and Viper will require you to invest time to get proficient with. If you just want to go pew pew and throw bombs and don't really fancy all the learning/training, you might be better off going for Flaming Cliffs (Maybe I'm misinterpreting and surely no offence meant, but your OP question kinda gives the impression you're not really into the learning part) 

if you cant land the f 16 that is a skill issue.

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, Sniper_1-1 said:

  if you cant land the f 16 that is a skill issue.

You obviously missed my point 

I said landing the Hornet is easier. Nobody said one can't land the Viper. Please don't twist my words...

[BuzzU]

7 hours ago, sirrah said:

You obviously missed my point 

I said landing the Hornet is easier. Nobody said one can't land the Viper. Please don't twist my words...

You think it's easier to land the Hornet on the boat at night in a storm than the Viper at night in a storm?

Edited August 10, 2024 by BuzzU

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, BuzzU said:

You think it's easier to land the Hornet on the boat at night in a storm than the Viper at night in a storm?

 

*sigh*

Who said anything about landing on a boat (did you even read the OP)? You do realize the Hornet can also land on airfields?

Just in case you really don't understand what I meant, I was merely pointing out that the Hornet's landing gear is much more forgiving than the Viper's

 

But you know what, just forget about my attempt to contribute to the OP's question, as apparently to some it's too complicated to understand what I meant.. or my attempt to adept to the English language is just too incomprehensible.

 

Edited August 10, 2024 by sirrah

[Ogata_Rina]

It's 100% easier to learn and master the 16. HOTAS layout is simply better, easier to land (18's landing config is simply not natural for non-pilot), and much more public materials to train from. The weapon system is less complex, and the pilot interface is imo more ergonomic. It takes more to fly the hornet to the same capability of a 16.

But I still recommend the 18 since it's so underrated nowadays, and not like it's that difficult to learn, it's harder to fly gooder.

[BuzzU]

23 hours ago, sirrah said:

*sigh*

Who said anything about landing on a boat (did you even read the OP)? You do realize the Hornet can also land on airfields?

Just in case you really don't understand what I meant, I was merely pointing out that the Hornet's landing gear is much more forgiving than the Viper's

 

But you know what, just forget about my attempt to contribute to the OP's question, as apparently to some it's too complicated to understand what I meant.. or my attempt to adept to the English language is just too incomprehensible.

 

 

Two decades of F4 and BMS. The Viper doesn't seem easier or harder to land. However, even though the OP didn't ask about landing the Hornet on the boat. It's still part of learning the Hornet and can't be pushed aside.

I flare the Hornet when I land on airfields. I read the real pilots do too. Don't you?

 

btw...Thanks for the insult. It's against the rules in case you didn't know it.

Edited August 11, 2024 by BuzzU

[n0pe]

On 8/10/2024 at 2:22 PM, BuzzU said:

You think it's easier to land the Hornet on the boat at night in a storm than the Viper at night in a storm?

 

lol you answer questions like my wife, intentionally change the outcome to trigger an argument. Maybe you need a nap? 

[n0pe]

Navy bird, SLAP that B@TCH on the ground...Airforce bird, be gentle daddy! 

Buy the module for the plane you personally love, then you will want to know it inside and out. I have both, but the 16 has and always will be my favourite airframe. 

 

I would echo some other points made though. It is more intuitive than the 18 in some regards. Different approaches to sensor controls but both extremely capable. There are more weapon options on the 18 with anti ship options etc. 

My personal opinion, the 18 is dull, which is a very odd thing to say, its a freekin fighter aircraft after all, but somehow for me its just not interesting and doesn't excite me. Everything feels like a chore, feels slow and uninteresting. But that's just me, you might love it.

put your wellies on and jump in, buy both and support ED with cold hard cash so they can pay......the bills (or whatever they choose to PAY.....) 

[Guldendrak]

From someone who was a completely beginner in flight simulation and who tried to learn a lot of planes at same time (A10, F16, F18, Mirage, Harrier...), I found the F16 was the most intuitive plane. Everything is logic. Menus are logics, hotas is logic, you easily find how to do what you want without the need to always watch a youtube video. The hornet, if I stop play it a few month I easily forget how to do things. And if after the F16 you learn the A10,  you will see that both planes teach you how to be better with the other one.

[BuzzU]

7 hours ago, n0pe said:

lol you answer questions like my wife, intentionally change the outcome to trigger an argument. Maybe you need a nap? 

You don't think your post triggers an argument? I'm not going for it. Nice try.

[Raisuli]

From alt.sysadmin.recovery: All hardware sucks, all software sucks.

Ok, the F-18 is slightly newer and has a bitchin' Betty-Lou, the F-16 has a bitchin' Betty that chain-smokes.  Visibility in the F-16 is better; that canopy bow is a distraction.  The F-16 is a rocket where the F-18 is a beast.  The F-18 has an extra pair of heaters on the wingtips.  The F-16 has much, much nicer cluster bombs.  The F-18 carries longer range A-G missiles (harpoon, SLAM), The F-16 has a HARM targeting pod, the F-18 has a built in jammer.

They're the same only different.  Just close your eyes and pick one.  If I had to keep one to the exclusion of the other I'd be happy either way.

 

[Sn0wMan4]

After flying the F-16 for 6 months and getting pretty good at it, I tried the 2 week trial of the F-18 and I can say without a doubt the F-16 is simply easier with less steps to do what you want to.

The DOGFIGHT switch saves your previous mode setup, meaning you could've been lining up for some bombing runs with TGP/WPN pages up, switch to A/A mode, kill the threat, then when you exit DOGFIGHT, your bombing run pages come back the way you left them.

Targets of Opportunity are ridiculously easy. Push MARKPOINT, TMS UP long to get your helmet tracking a target, TMS UP twice and you've just created a Sensor Point of Interest.

The flight models are also very different. The F-18 will not let you exceed 6G's at high speeds. The F-16 will let you pull as hard as your pilot will take. The F-16 will also not allow you to stall the plane as long as you have throttle.

And the visibility! I love the F-16's glass bubble. It's visually a pleasure to fly with to actually see your surroundings.

F-16 all the way.

[rob10]

2 hours ago, Sn0wMan4 said:

Targets of Opportunity are ridiculously easy. Push MARKPOINT, TMS UP long to get your helmet tracking a target, TMS UP twice and you've just created a Sensor Point of Interest.

I'm in the camp of whichever you learn first will make the other hard to learn (because they are so different that you have to reprogram your brain going from one to the other).

As for the above point, in the F-18, slew your targeting pod over the target, TDC depress, drop bomb.  I'd call that pretty simple .  If you want to record the point simply press the MK button.

[Waffle 1-1]

20 hours ago, rob10 said:

I'm in the camp of whichever you learn first will make the other hard to learn (because they are so different that you have to reprogram your brain going from one to the other).

I got both at the same time so I kinda learned them in parallel. I can still somewhat easily switch but have to brush up on specifics with regards to certain weapons on each of them.

Things that clicked better for me in the viper:

• AA radar & HSD page
• HARM usage with and without HST
• Toss/Loft bombing
• Litening pod (I know you can put it on the hornet too) & automatic lasing of targets
• Mavericks
• Use of the helmet mounted sight 

Things that clicked better in the hornet:

• Gunsight
• JDAM in TOO mode (once it got fixed this year even better)
• Autopilot modes
• Radios & navigation
• AAR
• Landing on a boat

Both are good fun and very competent multirole jets. If you prefer one over the other on any level, get that one. Then trial the other one and see how different they are and whether you prefer that one.

Overall, I couldn’t choose. Since getting an ultrawide screen, it’s easier to keep the viper hud and displays readable. I still miss my F15E. That had no thick hud lines and was most enjoyable.

[TobiasA]

The Viper is easier in terms of avionics. Almost never requires you to take your hands off the HOTAS, I mostly use the mouse to switch AG weapons if necessary and toggle the light switch. Efficient, intuitive, bubble canopy, 9G, one of the best accelerations you can imagine (especially if you unload).
But: The Viper is more difficult to fly right. In terms of air refuelling it is one of the hardest planes to master, especially at night. Easy to put into PIO for unexperienced pilots.
If you want to land a hornet, just keep it straight until it touches the ground. Slam it onto that tarmac like there is no tomorrow. Don't be gentle, it's rental. If you do that with a Viper, you might break the gear. You have to flare it. You also have to flare it to be able to aerobrake, especially with HTS and TGP equipped- once the nose is down, it will stay down, and it doesn't have the brakes of a Viggen.
Refuelling the hornet is not as easy as the M-2000C (which is a rocket on rails) but it comes close. Landing on a boat is difficult compared to landing on an airbase, but the hornet got tons of helpers and assistance and a beep here and a warning there and if you don't hit the bridge or the aft of the ship, it should do. A crosswind landing in bad weather in the Viper can be harder than landing on a boat- not only that you have to correct for wind, flare, and then get the nose straight on the runway while holding 12° AOA, you also have to sacrifice a part of your already poor braking performance to counter the crosswind force pushing your nose into the wind while slipping around on the wet runway.
Also, the Viper doesn't have the insane nose authority of a Hornet.
But I'd pick the Viper any day over the Hornet, because it is extremely satisfying to fly, a joy at low altitude, and an absolute beast when it comes to SEAD / DEAD. Depends on what you like.
I never really got into the hornet, because I never understood the user interface. It is fun to fly, but I got lost in MFD screens and in thousands of menus without hitting the way back to where I have been. The A-10 is logical, the F-16 is logical, the F-18 is logical for people that started with it. Who don't know the joy of popping through three different presets with 6 MFD pages each by DMS right / left and the override switch, never leaving the HOTAS between engaging a SAM with HARMs and launching a 120 on an enemy MiG-29 just seconds later.

[XBlackstoneX]

I got the Viper and Thrustmaster Viper throttle and learned it from scratch. Best experience I have ever had in a simulator game. The bubble cockpit has incredible visibility, the systems do start to make sense after you learn a few quirks and you can become competent in a few weeks. It is perfect.

[DimSim]

Lots of good an accurate opinions above.

My 2c from a long time with the F18 and recent start with F16...

F18 is easier to fly, F16 is simpler to fight.

With F16 you keep hands on stick/throttle more, F18 you press buttons around MFDs more.

F18 is easier to land and a lot more forgiving due to carrier ops. With F18, landing on carrier is a challenge. With F16, landing is a challenge Both are fun once mastered.

F18 has carrier ops.

Both are good quality aircraft with different philosophies. They are specific block models. I personally wish I could mix a few bits of both to make the perfect era aircraft.

Edited September 12, 2024 by DimSim

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I find the F16 easier to land in the workflow sense. Too many things going on and to focus on with F18 carrier landings. But I think the JF17 (sorry if going a little off topic) has the easiest workflow.