PSVR2 to PCVR is releasing today.

[RealDCSpilot]

I already got the adapter, Steam says the app releases in ~5 hours. I'm very curious how well it will work.

Edited August 6, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[RealDCSpilot]

Alright, all is up and running for a couple of hours. Setup was really easy. I'm really impressed with what i've seen so far. It's like being cured from an eye disease called "LCD".
FOV measuring was kind of an surprise 110° horizontal and 100° vertical. Didn't expect this from how it looks from inside the HMD.
Didn't had the time to test DCS yet. That's for tomorrow.

Edited August 6, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[Koziolek]

Looking forward to the comparison with PICO 4. I understand that PSVR2 is Steam only? How do you run your PICO? Steam or VDXR?

[cordite]

Who did you get the adapter from, a regional Sony site? 

And I guess “eye tracking” doesn’t work, because reasons?

Edited August 6, 2024 by cordite

[RealDCSpilot]

I guess my Pico 4 will go on the shelf. I was running VDXR, also tried the new Pico Connect version lately which runs also really well now with SteamVR. But having OLED back on my eyes since 5 or 6 years now is changing the game quite a bit. It looks so good at this resolution. The last OLED HMD i had was the Samsung Odyssey+ and the PSVR2 is so much better than that.

[Peedee]

9 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

I guess my Pico 4 will go on the shelf. I was running VDXR, also tried the new Pico Connect version lately which runs also really well now with SteamVR. But having OLED back on my eyes since 5 or 6 years now is changing the game quite a bit. It looks so good at this resolution. The last OLED HMD i had was the Samsung Odyssey+ and the PSVR2 is so much better than that.

Very interesting! Before I got my Pimax Crystal I really enjoyed my Pico 4. Light weight and I preferred the pan cake lenses over the fresnel lenses of my Reverb G2. I got a PSVR2 headset, and I have used it with my PS5 of course. I’m not going to buy the adapter because I am so happy with my Pimax Crystal. But it’s good to hear that the PSVR2 is working good in a PCVR setup. It is a very comfortable headset to wear.

Edited August 7, 2024 by Peedee

[RealDCSpilot]

11 hours ago, cordite said:

Who did you get the adapter from, a regional Sony site? 

And I guess “eye tracking” doesn’t work, because reasons?

 

Did preorder it from GameStop last week. Did run quite smooth, last friday the send me the shipping notification and i got the package right on time.

Eye tracking in the HMD comes from Tobii, there might be several reasons why it's not supported (yet?). First thing that comes into my mind is licensing issues. Sony would need to implement a new set of Tobii's software stack into the windows drivers and - of course - pay for it. The current lack of official eye tracking functionality for PCVR is a point which makes this quite uneconomical at the moment. And the adapter would need to be sold at a higher price. Same goes for HDR and integrated Bluetooth. For that the adapter would need serious hardware upgrades with parts from the PS5 like Bluetooth radio and Sony's own software/driver stack. The adapter price would easily jump to 150,- bucks or more. Much less people would be willing to pay that.

[RealDCSpilot]

Alright, first tests in DCS.

First i have to say: I MISS THE CONVENIENCE OF VIRTUAL DESKTOP! It's really a bummer to be forced back into SteamVR and it's shenanigans after a couple of years. It really took me some time to remember how to set throttling behaviour and stuff to get rid of the fps locked to 45 or 60. The PSVR2 is able to run 90Hz or 120 Hz mode. I disabled motion smoothing as well because it's still very bad after so many years. PCVR is about pros and cons. Some things never change. However, the first thing that jumps into the eyes is image quality. There is no match in the price segment far below 1000,- bucks atm. Streaming to a mobile headsets comes at a cost. There is a lot stuff that gets lost due to compression. On top those OLED panels in the PSVR2 kill LCD anyways at any time.
Current per eye res is 4080x4164, have to tune it down a bit to be able to directly compare it with my Pico 4 experience...

The cockpit is much more readable, everything simply looks better and vibrant. Now i have to go into Nvidia settings to see if i can tone down some typical SteamVR issues like occasional frame drops and stuttering when looking 90° left or right.

[winghunter]

tested with DCS 2:30

 

[RealDCSpilot]

Not really going into details, misses a lot and ugh - doesn't know much about SteamVR supersampling. Of course you can easily tank your fps by using DCS's pixel density value.

On my end i found my sweetspot for the settings. I'm at the same resolution now that i used for the Pico 4, that's around 3800x3800 per eye. All quality settings on max on the 4090.
Checked a lot of different scenarios and oh my god, it's sooo good to have OLED panels again. And the ones in the PSVR2 are the most powerful i've seen so far. Especially at night it's a total different experience. Lights in general, gunfire, explosions, sparks spraying on armor hit by bullets. The FLIR of the PNVS in the Apache looks so much better now. And so many new visible small details! All that stuff that is lost through compression is visible again. The next big thing that i totally forgot about in the past years with VR streaming is LATENCY. I got so used to the latency from virtual desktop that it really struck me after a realizing how much more responsive DCS is now.

Final Verdict:
If you already have the PSVR2 it's a no-brainer. The adapter will double the value of the device and transform it into a fully fletched PCVR headset.
If you were lucky and got your PSVR2 in the latest sale. Get the adapter too, it's a steal!
If you had the abandoned Reverb G2 before and you are now looking for an alternative -> The PSVR2 fills the gap the HP Reverb G2 has left and will be an upgrade. In the same price range you can now get an powerful OLED VR HMD with much better specs than the good old times of 2016.

---
Pros:

- OLED panels with 2000 x 2040 pixel per eye (extreme high color bandwidth because HDR capability, very high contrast ratio, very high dynamic range for brightness)

- solid SLAM tracking

- light and comfortable (i recommend Globular Cluster's comfort mod plus their headphone mod)

- uncompressed direct DisplayPort connection -> low latency (!)

- FOV of 110° horizontal and ~100° vertical

- the hand controllers are very good too, ergonomical and light weight (i don't use them with DCS, but for any other VR games)

- if you have a PS5, check those highend VR games in HDR! (GT7, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 8, Horizon: CotM and more)

Cons:

- OpenXR via SteamVR (all the good and the bad it brings to the table)

- the classic PCVR tinkering stuff for best performance

- fresnel lenses need more attention with correct placement on the head. take your time here with eye distance setting to find the right sweet spot.

- typical fresnel lenses stuff: no edge to edge clarity, color dispersion

- eye tracking implemented in hardware but not useable on PC (for now?)

- HDR mode not available on PCVR (not yet?)

---

Hint #1: don't be stupid like some youtubers. If you have a VR capable rig and didn't try to get away with a cheap motherboard you should have Bluetooth integrated with the onboard WLAN adapter. Plug in the antenna in the back panel to have a much more powerful BT sender and receiver than any USB dongle. Works flawless with the PSVR2 controllers. Actually, the PSVR2 setup process was one of the fastest i ever had. 5 minutes and everything was ready to go.
Hint #2: if you have a PS5, make sure to update the firmware of the headset and the controllers here first before trying to connect to PC.

Edited August 8, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[Morat]

Ordered! I'll be going from Reverb G2 (pre-order) to PSVR2 which arrives on Saturday. I had a panic because the adapter sold out in about an hour, but it was still available on Amazon.de just now so I've ordered there for an extra EU6 shipping.

 

@RealDCSpilot Would you be able to post details of your DCS MT Shortcut please? I've got mine set to force openXR right now. Does that need to change?

I'll show you mine first

Location: "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World 2 OpenAlpha\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR

Start in: "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World 2 OpenAlpha\bin-mt"

 

No, it hasn't changed since MT was released....

Edited August 8, 2024 by Morat

[LucShep]

@RealDCSpilot thanks for the impressions and details.

Following your feedback, as well as the current initial reviews on youtube, this does seem like a valid VR headset for PCVR, maybe also for newcomers.
Actually, it seems to be the new alternative to the well known (but discontinued) HP Reverb G2.
From what I gather for general first impressions across the web:

- Similar resolution to HP Reverb G2, but with better FOV and better colors (OLED!)
- DisplayPort connection  (so no image compression and performance impact from wireless encoding/decoding, and no batteries)
- Comfortable enough "out of the box" for most people  (doesn't require aftermarket straps, mods or hacks, HALO type design)
- Somewhat acceptable price  (60€ for PC adapter + 600€ for VR headset --- used ones can be found at half the price)
- Wide offer/availability in big marketplaces

Edited August 8, 2024 by LucShep

[Phantom711]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Morat:

Location: "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World 2 OpenAlpha\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR

The „—force_OpenXR“ extension is not needed at all. The MT version of DCS uses OXR by default. It shouldn‘t hurt though.

The „—force_enableVR“ extension can cause issues/conflicts with the new DCS launcher. You can simply select 2D/VR in the launcher.

[Wali763]

2 hours ago, LucShep said:

@RealDCSpilot thanks for the impressions and details.

Following your feedback, as well as the current initial reviews on youtube, this does seem like a valid VR headset for PCVR, maybe also for newcomers.
Actually, it seems to be the new alternative to the well known (but discontinued) HP Reverb G2.
From what I gather for general first impressions across the web:

- Similar resolution to HP Reverb G2, but with better FOV and better colors (OLED!)
- DisplayPort connection  (so no image compression and performance impact from wireless encoding/decoding, and no batteries)
- Comfortable enough "out of the box" for most people  (doesn't require aftermarket straps, mods or hacks, HALO type design)
- Somewhat acceptable price  (60€ for PC adapter + 600€ for VR headset --- used ones can be found at half the price)
- Wide offer/availability in big marketplaces

 

From what I understand you also need a DP-cable since this is not included in the adapter-set. Also - if needed a bluetooth-adapter - if you plan to use the controllers.

Can anyone comment on a performance-comparison with a Reverb G2? The resolution is a bit lower, but you have to use SteamVR, which again should cost some performance.

I find the increased FOV quite appealing.

Does anyone know, If you can use two headsets (but not simulaniously) on one PC? Currently my son and I share my Reverb G2 (he more than me) and changing the straps on the headset constantly is a bit annoying. Since he has a seperate user on my PC, I could uninstall/disable WMR on my user and use the PSVR2 and give the G2 entirely to my son to use.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Wali763

[Morat]

1 hour ago, Phantom711 said:

The „—force_OpenXR“ extension is not needed at all. The MT version of DCS uses OXR by default. It shouldn‘t hurt though.

The „—force_enableVR“ extension can cause issues/conflicts with the new DCS launcher. You can simply select 2D/VR in the launcher.

Thank you Phantom, that's great info.

[RealDCSpilot]

@Morat

You can also disable the launcher because it's not needed all the time. And yes, i'm still using both start parameters on my shortcut. But it should work without them with the MT exe.

@Wali763

I would restart the PC everytime you intend to switch VR HMDs, but it should work. You my have to check to prevent certain stuff from starting and interfere (SteamVR plugins, other tweaking tools).

@LucShep

Yes, it's definitely a decent PCVR headset now. Especially in that price range. Typical for PCVR it's not perfect right now, but the Pros take out the Cons. If eye-tracking would work, it would be a killer HMD with enabled foveated rendering. Maybe Sony will make it possible someday, we can only hope. HDR someday could be possible too, which would be another highend killer feature. It's crazy that this stuff is already implemented in hardware but not useable on PC.

Edited August 8, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[tn_prvteye]

Dumb question.  I'm currently running a Reverb G2, and don't want to foul that install up.  If I just unplug the Reverb, and start DCS with the "-SteamVR" (or whatever it was), I won't break my previous install of the Reverb stuff, right?  I can go back to the G2 if I want without issues?

 

I should note that I've already got a PSVR2 and the adapter will be here today.

[winghunter]

Is there any hope for a PSVR2 openXR without Steam?

[mbucchia]

6 hours ago, winghunter said:

Is there any hope for a PSVR2 openXR without Steam?

That's a question I've looked into. It's a similar question that I look into a while ago w.r.t other headsets with only SteamVR drivers. 

Possible: Yes

Difficult: Yes

Hopeful: No

 

Sony isn't releasing any proper developer SDK. The only driver that exists is the one in SteamVR. To make this driver work _without_ SteamVR, one would need to write a SteamVR Driver adapter, which would need to implement parts of the SteamVR Driver API to talk to the driver and pretend to be SteamVR. The adapter could then expose itself as an Oculus Quest for example, and plug into VDXR that way.

Looking into the guts of the driver, you can see that the following SteamVR Driver API interfaces are used:

IVRSettings_003, ITrackedDeviceServerDriver_005, IVRDisplayComponent_003, IVRDriverDirectModeComponent_008, IVRCameraComponent_003, IServerTrackedDeviceProvider_004, IVRWatchdogProvider_001, IVRCompositorPluginProvider_001, IVRDriverLog_001, IVRServerDriverHost_006,IVRCompositorDriverHost_001, IVRWatchdogHost_002, IVRVirtualDisplay_002, IVRResources_001, IVRDriverManager_001, IVRProperties_001, IVRDriverInput_003

Not all of these need to be fully implemented, but at least partially mocked (think like what OpenComposite does for the OpenVR API) to fool Sony's driver sufficiently.

On top of that, there's a few compositor features that would need to replicate the behavior or SteamVR's compositor and which don't exist today outside of it or inside Sony's driver (eg: quad layer (not views!) rendering).

There's probably over 100-200 hours of work (for a dev knowing that they are doing) to make this happen reliably. All of that for a headset that doesn't even support eye tracking  which personally doesn't motivate me to go and do all this work.

Edited August 9, 2024 by mbucchia

[Aapje]

It's a bit hard to imagine that they first would spend time developing for the obsolete SteamVR API and would then do it all again for OpenXR.

My guess is that they developed for SteamVR internally, to test the headset, and then decided to release it, since doing so is fairly straightforward. Especially since they left out eye tracking.

[warmachine79]

Anyone has a clue why the eye tracking is not working?

[Marklar]

Sony decided not to implement it, same with HDR.

  

On 8/8/2024 at 7:40 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

typical fresnel lenses stuff: no edge to edge clarity, color dispersion

I'd like to know how these lenses compare to Reverb G2, if someone has experience with both. Is the sweet spot bigger or the same? I tried Quest 3 for a few days and was impressed with image clarity through pancake lenses. Shame PSVR2 has fresnel lenses.

  

On 8/8/2024 at 7:40 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

uncompressed direct DisplayPort connection -> low latency (!)

Is it really uncompressed video signal? I know the cable has DP connection on one end but it's USB C one the other end, which is limited to 10 Gbps.

Edited August 9, 2024 by Marklar

[AlpineGTA]

I've seen from watching a couple youtube reviewers that if your GPU has a USB-C VirtualLink port you don't need to buy the Sony adapter and I think I have one on my AMD 6900XT. I'm now tempted to go out and buy a PSVR2 to replace my Reverb G2.

[mbucchia]

6 hours ago, Aapje said:

It's a bit hard to imagine that they first would spend time developing for the obsolete SteamVR API and would then do it all again for OpenXR

90% of VR content is still OpenVR. If they had not implemented a SteamVR driver, you would not be able to run this 90% of games.

By implementing a SteamVR driver, you automatically get support for both OpenVR and OpenXR applications. It's the most economical way of developing a headset.

Most vendors only care to develop their own OpenXR runtime when they have unique features that SteamVR won't support, like hand, eye, face tracking. They don't look at the "SteamVR performance" picture.

[RealDCSpilot]

6 hours ago, Marklar said:

Is it really uncompressed video signal?

It's not just USB, it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualLink

Edited August 9, 2024 by RealDCSpilot