fixed Trigger "GROUP ALIVE LESS THAN" not working any more

[LeCuvier]

This trigger does not work any more. I don't know when the bug was introduced, but it can't be very long ago. In a A-10C II mission, new threats appear when the previous threat is > 50% dead. Due to the bug, the mission does not progress any more. As a work-around, I have changed the trigger to "GROUP DEAD" which is not quite the same, but I can continue playing the mission.
As the original mission would produce a huge track file, I have create a very simple mission where I attack a group of closely spaced tank trucks with dumb bombs. The mission is set to display a message like "Group Oilers 1 dead". The attached track "Trigger Test 1.trk" shows that no message is displayed at all when it should.
For comparison I created a second simple mission which uses the triger "GROUP DEAD". The attached "Trigger Test 2.trk" shows the correct message when the target group is destroyed.
I don't know whether the bug is in ME or in the mission execution. It could make a lot of missions unusable and should be fixed!

Trigger Test 1.trk Trigger Test 2.trk

[PrimetimeCasual]

Just noticed the same - rather annoying, as I wanted to create a mission where waves spawn while the older ones might still be active. Definitely recently introduced, and hopefully fixed soon...

[LeCuvier]

As there is no response from the moderators, ED hasn't even acknowledged this bug.

@NineLine please take this issue up!

[104th_Money]

This bug is really irritating. I have a mission that you have to kill a group of infantry and vehicles at a waypoint. Since the group alive less condition is not working, I have to use all coalition out of zone as a substitute. Only problem is that sometimes infantry, or even vehicles for that matter, go into buildings and you cant see them anymore. The group alive less than condition was a way to kill most of the infantry and still be able to trigger other things if 1 or 2 infantry was inside buildings...Please fix this, again...

[LeCuvier]

3 hours ago, 104th_Money said:

This bug is really irritating. I have a mission that you have to kill a group of infantry and vehicles at a waypoint. Since the group alive less condition is not working, I have to use all coalition out of zone as a substitute. Only problem is that sometimes infantry, or even vehicles for that matter, go into buildings and you cant see them anymore. The group alive less than condition was a way to kill most of the infantry and still be able to trigger other things if 1 or 2 infantry was inside buildings...Please fix this, again...

The trigger "GROUP ALIVE LESS THAN" works for me if I kill the majority of the group's elements, but not all. It fails only if I kill all elements in a single attack.
In your scenario it should work, because you will never kill all elements of the group in one attack.

[Paco]

I can verify this trigger is broken.

[nighteyes2017]

I took the trigger 1 test from OP en tested it. It works fine, except for 1 thing. The trigger was set for 50%. That means that if 2 out of 4 units are dead, the trigger wont fire!. Because 2 out of 4 units actually equals 50%, and not less than 50 %. Set the trigger for 51% and then it will work.

So for example if you want the trigger to fire when only 1 out of 4 units dies, you should set 76% and not 75.

I edited the mission you used and added a gamemaster and an F10 menu to explode each individual unit for easy testing. This worked for me just fine. Trigger Test 1 edited.miz

[LeCuvier]

11 minutes ago, nighteyes2017 said:

I took the trigger 1 test from OP en tested it. It works fine, except for 1 thing. The trigger was set for 50%. That means that if 2 out of 4 units are dead, the trigger wont fire!. Because 2 out of 4 units actually equals 50%, and not less than 50 %. Set the trigger for 51% and then it will work.

So for example if you want the trigger to fire when only 1 out of 4 units dies, you should set 76% and not 75.

I edited the mission you used and added a gamemaster and an F10 menu to explode each individual unit for easy testing. This worked for me just fine. Trigger Test 1 edited.miz

First of all, I do understand the logic of LESS THAN
But, as I clarified in my August 27th post, the trigger fails if I kill ALL elements of the target group in one attack. With zero elements of the group alive, the condition "LESS THAN 50% ALIVE" should evaluate to TRUE and the trigger should activate. It doesn't.

[nighteyes2017]

ah, i understand. Sorry for misinterpreting.

I'm not entirely sure this is a bug exactly since checking for a group alive less than, or a group that is dead, won't yield the same result. I guess it comes from when a group that is dead, you can't check it for how alive they are, since the group no longer exists in the mission database.

Did it actually work before this? Then it would be a bug.

But i have run into this problem when scripting lua, and it made sense to me because you can't check a variable for an object that does not exist, unless you made a note of it when it did exist, and remember that value.

 

However as a workaround:

What i always do in my triggers, is add an or statement, checking for group dead, so:

group alive less than 50

OR

Group dead

This should work as a workaround and a failsafe.

[Crash *]

Am 27.8.2024 um 20:41 schrieb Paco:

I can verify this trigger is broken.

+1

[LeCuvier]

7 hours ago, nighteyes2017 said:

ah, i understand. Sorry for misinterpreting.

I'm not entirely sure this is a bug exactly since checking for a group alive less than, or a group that is dead, won't yield the same result. I guess it comes from when a group that is dead, you can't check it for how alive they are, since the group no longer exists in the mission database.

Did it actually work before this? Then it would be a bug.

But i have run into this problem when scripting lua, and it made sense to me because you can't check a variable for an object that does not exist, unless you made a note of it when it did exist, and remember that value.

 

However as a workaround:

What i always do in my triggers, is add an or statement, checking for group dead, so:

group alive less than 50

OR

Group dead

This should work as a workaround and a failsafe.

1. YES, it worked before, for years!
2. I cannot agree with your programmatic logic. If GROUP DEAD would mean that the object no longer exists, then you could not even check for its DEAD status.
3. YES, I have applied the same work-around

Edited September 18, 2024 by LeCuvier

[f-18hornet]

Thank you, reported for internal analysis.

[nighteyes2017]

20 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

1. YES, it worked before, for years!
2. I cannot agree with your programmatic logic. If GROUP DEAD would mean that the object no longer exists, then you could not even check for its DEAD status.
3. YES, I have applied the same work-around

 

1. alright, then its a bug, obviously.

2. you can actually. you can check if the object exists so it is nil. Also, you could define an array for all existing groups at the beginning of the mission that exist and thus are alive, so you know which groups should be alive. again, its a workaround.

3. thought you would have, but just to be sure.

[metzger]

This bug also breaks the Apache hunting ground mission:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3321127/

Very good apache sandbox with available versions for the hind.

EDIT: If this will help, it is very likely broken with this update: DCS 2.9.3.51704 - 22.02.2024

Edited September 22, 2024 by metzger

[104th_Money]

Any news on this bug? I have so many missions, especially larger MP server missions that are broken because of it. If you have say 30 infantry running around buildings or even DSHK trucks and you are shooting at them in an Apache, they start running/driving around. Sometimes they run/drive inside buildings and you can no longer target them with George or by using a JTAC to lase. The group alive less than trigger allows you to compensate for a few troops/trucks stuck so you can add other triggers to it like an area cleared message. Please fix this...And while we are at it, can we fix the root issue and make them not run inside buildings? I wouldnt need the group alive less than trigger and could just use group dead trigger instead...

 

Edited October 1, 2024 by 104th_Money

[f-18hornet]

Hi, the bug is fixed internally.

[Gierasimov]

On 10/1/2024 at 10:35 AM, f-18hornet said:

Hi, the bug is fixed internally.

That is great to hear! I hope it will make it into the next update.

[BeerNfrites]

On 10/1/2024 at 9:35 AM, f-18hornet said:

Hi, the bug is fixed internally.

When is it expected to make it into a release?

[f-18hornet]

12 hours ago, BeerNfrites said:

When is it expected to make it into a release?

Hi @BeerNfrites, it should be fixed since this patch. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/stable/2.9.9.2280/

[LeCuvier]

3 hours ago, f-18hornet said:

Hi @BeerNfrites, it should be fixed since this patch. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/stable/2.9.9.2280/

I tested and found that it worked.

[YoYo]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:32 PM, LeCuvier said:

I tested and found that it worked.

Good to know! Thx for the info.