Feedback Thread - F-14 Tomcat update, August 9th 2024

[Nealius]

That's residual heat. The U-2 doesn't glow when it routinely cruises at 50k-70k. Felix Baumgartner didn't glow when he jumped from a balloon at 128,000ft.

[Q3ark]

8 hours ago, Nealius said:

That's residual heat. The U-2 doesn't glow when it routinely cruises at 50k-70k. Felix Baumgartner didn't glow when he jumped from a balloon at 128,000ft.

It’s not residual heat, it’s friction from the air heating the heat shield due to the spacecraft‘s high speed when re-entering the atmosphere.

[Nealius]

4 hours ago, Q3ark said:

It’s not residual heat, it’s friction from the air heating the heat shield due to the spacecraft‘s high speed when re-entering the atmosphere.

Residual heat from reentry; that was clearly implied. Reentry occurs at the Karman line, which is around about 300,000ft. At 50,000ft any heatshield glow is going to be residual. Which is besides the point of the claim that air resistance at 50,000ft would cause so much friction when, as pointed out above, a literal human being hurled himself from 128,000ft and didn't glow from friction caused by the air resistance at any point between 128,000ft and whenever he popped his chute (likely below 10k). 

You can even look at the shuttle's reentry profile. Maximum heating is marked at around 70km altitude, which is 230,000ft. The glowing plasma phase, and associated radio blackout, end at around 55km altitude; 180,000ft. By 50,000ft I'm not sure that it would even be glowing. Hot, yes. Glowing, perhaps not.

Point is, the rebuttal about air resistance at 50,000ft is off by 130,000ft.

Edited August 17, 2024 by Nealius

[JupiterJoe]

Physics, it's not for everyone.

Edited August 17, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[Despayre]

4 hours ago, Nealius said:

...

You can even look at the shuttle's reentry profile. Maximum heating is marked at around 70km altitude, which is 230,000ft. The glowing plasma phase, and associated radio blackout, end at around 55km altitude; 180,000ft. By 50,000ft I'm not sure that it would even be glowing. Hot, yes. Glowing, perhaps not.

Point is, the rebuttal about air resistance at 50,000ft is off by 130,000ft.

 

Not trying to be difficult here, but, doesn't the air get thicker the lower you get, ergo, more resistance for the missile? And if the atmosphere is giving enough friction at 230,000ft, wouldn't that mean there's even more resistance at 50,000ft? (and I guess that would mean the heat is less on reentry at that height because there's been enough braking by then that it simply isn't moving fast enough to generate that much heat anymore?)

Also, re: Felix, wouldn't his relative lack of speed, and decreased drag coefficient (from being a much smaller object, travelling much slower), have a huge impact here too? His top speed was "only" 1.25 mach.

From NASA, "Typical low earth orbit re-entry speeds are near 17,500 mph and the Mach number M is nearly twenty five"

[=DROOPY=]

Anyone know any HABU Drivers? I have nothing to offer in this discussion that hasn't already been stated, but I bet a SR-71 driver could probably clarify. 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Despayre said:

Not trying to be difficult here, but, doesn't the air get thicker the lower you get, ergo, more resistance for the missile? And if the atmosphere is giving enough friction at 230,000ft, wouldn't that mean there's even more resistance at 50,000ft? (and I guess that would mean the heat is less on reentry at that height because there's been enough braking by then that it simply isn't moving fast enough to generate that much heat anymore?)

More or less this. On reentry, most of the speed is lost in upper atmosphere, far above 50kft. The Phoenix doesn't go particularly fast by spacecraft standards, and there's very little drag this high up at those speeds. On this phase, the heatshield doesn't glow anymore, and the spacecraft will be in a ballistic descent (unless it's the Space Shuttle, which is gliding at that point). 

Also, friction isn't the lead cause of reentry heating. Compression is, air can't get out of capsule's way fast enough, so it gets squeezed, and that causes it to heat up. A lot. Civilian reentry vehicles (that is, ones that are not ICBM warheads) have a blunt shape to keep this "bow shock" away from the heatshield's surface, preventing the glowing white plasma from heating it directly. If the heatshield glowed white, it'd be rapidly disintegrating. 

[RustBelt]

12 hours ago, =DROOPY= said:

Anyone know any HABU Drivers? I have nothing to offer in this discussion that hasn't already been stated, but I bet a SR-71 driver could probably clarify. 

This. They have to build it leaky so that at altitude and at speed it doesn’t buckle from heat expansion. 
 

Similar altitudes and speeds as a Phoenix.

[Scooper91]

Hi! 

Just wanted to share that I'm also getting the sound bug that I hear radio static all the time and even on external views. This is new for me. Only tested it in the F-14. And as someone else also said my wingman is now on repeat with the contact callouts, he just repeats it constantly in a loop.

 

Thanks!

[Czar66]

There is a very prominent stepping effect from the engines sound when spooling down during shut down. It is not linear as a jet engine shutting off.

Also a rumbling noise like it is an afterburner effect when idle on the ramp with the B variant inside the cockpit, which feels weird, like a space ship is launching at distance. (video bellow) This happened after cycling from the F2 view back into the cockpit.

Loud synthetic afterburner noise in DCS options is turned off/unchecked.

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Czar66

[WarthogOsl]

7 hours ago, Czar66 said:

There is a very prominent stepping effect from the engines sound when spooling down during shut down. It is not linear as a jet engine shutting off.

That one is a known issue.  I believe it only affects the right engine when starting up or shutting down, and only externally, or when the canopy is open.

[Xupicor]

16 hours ago, WarthogOsl said:

That one is a known issue.  I believe it only affects the right engine when starting up or shutting down, and only externally, or when the canopy is open.

Both engines, in-cockpit with the canopy open, last time I checked was a few days ago. Haven't checked with canopy closed.

Edited September 8, 2024 by Xupicor

[WarthogOsl]

7 hours ago, Xupicor said:

Both engines, in-cockpit with the canopy open, last time I checked was a few days ago. Haven't checked with canopy closed.

 

Huh..well fwiw, I almost always have the canopy open when I shut down the left engine, and I've never heard the stepping on that one.  This is for the A model, btw.  Dunno about the B.

[Indianajon]

Hey @IronMike, first and foremost I want to thank you and your team for the amazing work and development you and the team have made on both the Tomcat and Phantom. 99% of my dcs time is in one or the other and I have loved both from their releases. Now I know I'm in the minority here but I miss Jester. I find he talks progressives less, I know alot of people dislike his comments but I love them, makes me feel like I'm part of a crew. The new Mig Killers campaign has also helped show how him calling which way an opponent goes at the merge being super useful, likewise calling out the speed and descent rates in the speed and angels campaign.  I understand it might not be practicable but could you add an option in the Jester wheel in addition to the silence Jester that makes him talk more like old Jester? I miss him, it feels like we have had an argument and he has the hump. 

Ta

[draconus]

4 hours ago, Indianajon said:

could you add an option in the Jester wheel in addition to the silence Jester that makes him talk more like old Jester?

What do you mean? Jester has not been changed at all for F-14.

[Indianajon]

58 minutes ago, draconus said:

What do you mean? Jester has not been changed at all for F-14.

Hey @draconusit feels like he talks less, it's been a progressive thing over a duration but the frequency of comments has reduced. As an example, every landing he used to say something, these days less so, maybe 20% there is no comment. I am aware i am in a minority but i quite like him calling things out during BFM, primarily speed calls but the occasional spot call has always been useful. The various Reflected  campaigns have also shown where additional calls feel extra immersive, checklists, speed on take off and/or approach. Which way a bandit turns on the merge etc. I understand that some of these may not be practical outside a campaign format but in my mind the more of Jester the better.

[Xupicor]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:27 PM, WarthogOsl said:

Huh..well fwiw, I almost always have the canopy open when I shut down the left engine, and I've never heard the stepping on that one.  This is for the A model, btw.  Dunno about the B.

That's on startup for me, didn't check shut down.