Is there a way to identify targets with the Shkval?

[mbolan]

The impossibility of designing for perfection

 

Some of this discussion appears to be a little astray and I'd like to add my tuppenceworth in the hope that it might make some difference.

 

In my opinion, this sim is brilliant. It combines many complex features and places them in an evironment that offers serious learning opportunities, the development of personal strategies to deal with complexity and graphical eye candy that is most appealing, and access to a new world of enjoyment.

 

Flying the Ka is no easy task. Anyone who can do it well has learned much. Dropping in on a frigate with a skidding turn followed by a perfect descent and gentle flare out are seriously challenging and very rewarding for the pilot when done well.

 

There are boundaries to the sim - there have to be otherwise the sim would be as complete as the real world and would no longer be a sim!

 

I recommend to all flyers/users/rubbernecks that in the first instance they concentrate on what this sim offers - what we can get out of it - how we can use its functionality for fun and for our own learning (for more on this see 'The Decisive Moment' by Lehrer that describes how simulators can be used to increase brain power and personal capacities)

 

It's too easy to point to missing elements or things that could be different (what no chaff, no target recognition, no blood, no oil in the road) etc. But all of these minor points miss the point - the sim is a computer representation of a reality that itself is flawed and describes only one moment in the infinite strand of time. It's easy to call for perfection but we can too easily end up with absurdity (How come this Spitfire doesn't have missiles?).

 

The developers of this product should rightfully be proud. They have constructed a simulated reality that is second to none. What they need is ideas to improve on it along with encouragement to keep at it. Constant complaints and minor carping don't encourage much except resignation and apathy. These are not outcomes that the sim community should want.

 

Yes, they'll drift onto the new pseudo reality of the A10 (I hope) and again it'll be a partial representation of the real world. I will have had some very enjoyable and positive experiences for my modest investment of $80 and will have a product that I can return to at any time.

 

Once a flyer has learned to control the Ka beast, they can relax more and start to get deeply into strategic and tactical problems like which way to approach a defensive position. While they are doing this, they are exercising more of their brains than most people are going to use in much of their lives. They are going to learn to control their own responses and reactions (like controlling the 'hunting' of over/undershoot when trying to land on a small area) and gain other important insights into their own capacities.

 

That learning is invaluable and probably cannot be achieved any other way for most of us.

 

So please, seek first to understand before trying to be understood. :thumbup:

[th3flyboy]

'study' sim = start studying :)

 

LOL!

[muamshai]

If thier becks are towards you, they are friendlies.

If they are pointing whatever arsenal they got at you, they are enemies

 

:D

[WildBillKelsoe]

Per the title. Also, when the shkval locks something, it supposedly uses optical recognition of the target. Hence, why you can't lock up a rock? So, is there anywhere that the computer will tell me what it has locked up? And if it can identify what it has locked up, is it able to determine the weakest point of the target for missle and cannon fire guidance?

 

I want to know this, because I really have a hard time at extreme range ( which you need to be at most times ) in determining what my target is. Most times, it just looks like a tank ( could be M1, could be Linebacker or 2S6 ). The computer obviously recognizes it, but its not telling me what it is. I need to know if its something I shouldn't worry too much about, or is it AAA which is what I want to kill from the farthest distance possible.

 

 

If it has four wheels and no cannons, it's a UAZ or a Ural

If it has tracks and projections, it's a tank or a shilka, or an APC

If it has a flatbed sticking out into the air its a radar, specially if rotating

If it has something sticking out of nowhere, its a SAM-man

If it has a wing, it's a plane

If it has a blade it's a chopper, probable an Mi-24,

 

What?! they dont teach you that? Buggers. Mate, check the in-game pedia and you'll become better, a mere look into the intel photos should get you started. Regards, N/o

[Irregular programming]

If thier becks are towards you, they are friendlies.

If they are pointing whatever arsenal they got at you, they are enemies

 

:D

 

This is my mantra that I practice every day, it never fails. :thumbup:

[Isegrim]

Hi

 

To Proplem Nummero Uno

 

Russian units >>>http://war-hawks.net/TVIMAGE/TVView/TVIMAGE.htm

 

Nato units >>>http://war-hawks.net/TVIMAGE/TVView/TVIMAGENATO.htm

 

I Know thats not all units.

 

I take some time to learn to know what u are aiming at, but at which distances u are searching?

Its not a proplem to identify Targets at a distances less than 7 km for me and im not using adds like extra Shkval on extra monitor.

At bigger Distances it becomes more hard and needs a good eye and it gets nearly impossible to identify targets at 12+km.

 

Are u using the zero button at numpad >gives a close up view of the Shkval.

Which seting do u have in Graphic options menu for in pit Frames

512>>512 every Frame>>1024>>1024 every Frame ?

 

And the second Proplem.

 

Does that change something else exept that TA (eng HUD) is displayed in Shkval when u lase the Ground ??????

 

Its the same like in the real KA 50 the Gears up lights would be displayed yellow and in the sim its red. (I think they are red in real)

 

That doesnt match the>>> sim how its working (wouldnt say Gameplay).

 

:joystick:

[BKLronin]

Nice Links Ise!

[Reticuli]

"#1. Seen any other sims which actually implement image processing in order to accomplish target tracking?"

Not that I need nor want that particular feature (i.e. the tracking of any point), but why would you need image processing to allow people to lock onto anything or any spot, and if it happens to be a moving object at that spot, it tracks that object when in ground or air track modes? Since the code is omniscient, why would you even bother to go through all the trouble of image processing to achieve a similar end? If you're worried about it locking too easily onto anything, anytime, with just one click, a simple percentage lock fail value could be added that occasionally necessitates moving it slightly and/or hitting lock again. The user has no way of discerning the accuracy of this or the potential pattern recognition issues that might be at play, and thus a purely random chance is all that is required. Multiple potentially-obscuring objects or power lines within that direct line of sight to the point/object of interest could easily increase that probability of lock failure further and with an anticipated increased failure in desired outcome; again, the code is omniscient in this regard. One does not need to code a complete representation of a hardware-reality interaction in every detail to achieve similar or sometimes even seemingly identical results. And the "seemingly" part is really what you're going for, as this isn't an optical physics or information processing lab simulation for scientific purposes.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Reticuli

[GGTharos]

Did you by any chance bother to read what it was a response to before you ncroposted?

 

"#1. Seen any other sims which actually implement image processing in order to accomplish target tracking?"

 

Why would you need image processing to allow people to lock onto anything or any spot, and if it happens to be a moving object, it tracks that object when in ground or air track modes?

[Reticuli]

Yes, someone complaining that the Shkval doesn't realistically let you lock onto non-object points on the ground. I don't even care about that ground tracking thing. I like the spoofing of the Shkval into something smarter, especially considering the KA-50 version modeled is so out of date. It boosts its capability nicely. But while I was looking for a remedy to my mysterious Shkval objects disappearing issue, I stumbled on this thread. Is everything chill on your end?

[Reticuli]

I see you posted before I'd just edited and clarified my response slighty.

[TurboHog]

So you want something better than the Skhval?

 

I'd only agree if it's a realistic option for the KA-50 and as a matter of fact I came across this picture:

 

 

Blackshark 3 here I come :)

 

Very curious how these optics work compared to the skhval. A wider view area thats for sure and probably no old tv-screen anymore in the cockpit...

[Wolfie]

Probably same as shkval, except it looks like one is visual, and the other is FLIR. Ka-50N?

[EtherealN]

Turbohog, that's a prototype aircraft. Not an operational bird.

[PeterP]

BTW: I'm sure I would leave my "Third Eye" crushed on the runway every second time if I would do a heavy loaded rolling-takeoff with. (pitching forward around 15°)

 

So I even wouldn't call it a "prototype" - it's much more closer to a mock-up.

Edited April 25, 2012 by PeterP

[TurboHog]

Turbohog, that's a prototype aircraft. Not an operational bird.

 

Ok.

[Suchacz]

In most cases you don't have to know, what exact type of unit it is.

 

It's more sufficient to know, that it is friend or foe, which can be recognized by orientation of the vehicle, or direction of its barrel(s) or turret. If it is pointing at you than get lost or shoot it :thumbup:

[PhoenixBvo]

It's more sufficient to know, that it is friend or foe, which can be recognized by orientation of the vehicle, or direction of its barrel(s) or turret. If it is pointing at you than get lost or shoot it :thumbup:

 

That depends on your own position. It's not always the simple case of a frontline, where you can say: the good guys are on this side and the bad guys are over there.

 

An important factor in determining friend or foe from a large distance is your mission preparation and resulting situational awareness in combination with the ABRISS moving map showing you where the Shval is pointing at. But visual target ID is actually a must before engagement. I'd suggest: study the vehicle profiles in a training scenario. That's half the fun of this sim.

[Suchacz]

That depends on your own position. It's not always the simple case of a frontline, where you can say: the good guys are on this side and the bad guys are over there.

 

An important factor in determining friend or foe from a large distance is your mission preparation and resulting situational awareness in combination with the ABRISS moving map showing you where the Shval is pointing at. But visual target ID is actually a must before engagement. I'd suggest: study the vehicle profiles in a training scenario. That's half the fun of this sim.

This "scientific" way of solving this problem covers 2% of cases in which i'm not right :thumbup:

[PhoenixBvo]

I'd call it the military way...;-)

[seikdel]

Just wanted to say thanks for the prototype picture! I'd love to see what the capabilities of that bird are, though I agree that I'd tend to smear it along the runway with my rolling takeoffs.

[Suchacz]

I'd call it the military way...;-)

Of course, I was joking a little bit :music_whistling::P

[Pikey]

Actually, on (old) topic, there is one thing I'm not overly content with with regards to tracking and holding a target in BS.

 

If you hit an MBT and fail to destroy it, your lock remains. If you destroy it, the tracking detracks after a few seconds letting you know you destroyed it.

 

For the sake of realism vs game, it would be nice to keep the current tracking and locking system in game mode and implement a slightly different system for realistic mode.

 

Something like what A10 has in point mode...just let the shkval lock up any "object" including dead vehicles, pylons, sheep, whatever and hold it irregardless of what the object is.

 

If the target moves, would the track fail if GMT mode wasn't on?

 

Are there a list of "trackable" flags that can be edited? i'd like to mark dead vehicles as trackable anyway.

[PhoenixBvo]

^ +1

[Suchacz]

It would be also nice, if we could lock for example some landmarks, buildings, tv towers etc. to store them by datalink for further use.