correct as-is The feeling of flying with the F16

[mobile83]

Hello,

I'd like to discuss the F16's flight model with you because the flight sensations aren't great (that's my opinion), I find the aircraft heavy and not very manoeuvrable, the sensations of moving through the air aren't worthy of a jet, I feel like I'm flying a Boeing 737.

When I take the Mirage 2000, the feeling with the aircraft, the sensation of flying in CAT load or Air is incredible, the F16 in cat 3 seems so heavy to me.

That's normal? I don't really enjoy flying it any more because the electric flight controls seem to have a lot of inertia and not much precision. 

I hope that this will improve over time because I find it hard to want to fly it.

[Keith Briscoe]

Did you change any of the flight stick deadzone sliders since the last big patch or 2? There was a significant change for the f16.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Those concerns were very valid with the initial version of the flight model, but it was fixed with the newer version we got - I think 2 years ago now, a bit more perhaps?
Since those changes, those of us with a R3L (or similar) could enjoy the true joy of flying the F-16, but there were indeed still issues for those who use regular spring-centred sticks - and that was fixed a few updates ago.
So if you're still having issues it indeed sounds like you should check your control settings.

[mobile83]

No, I don't know anything about this dead zone thing, I just took over the simulation two months ago. Can you point me to a page that explains this? What should I set as the dead zone? Thank you 

[jackill]

Here: 

And here: 

 

[Gilligan]

Yes the viper gets very loaded down in CAT3. Remember, the Viper itself is very small and light compared to some other jets, so adding ordinance and fuel has a relatively greater impact than it would on larger jets.

 

Slick it comes alive, however. 

[Youtch]

Has anyone tried the Viper with a FFB stick and original configuration?

[MAXsenna]

On 11/13/2024 at 5:43 PM, Youtch said:

Has anyone tried the Viper with a FFB stick and original configuration?

Interesting. An FFB stick will still be like a "sprung" stick and not a force sensing stick. One might not see/feel any difference, but limiting the travel of any stick/base will limit the fidelity and resolution of the travel/deflection. Just my opinion. To get the full fidelity and resolution, a force sensing stick will always be better.  

[Vortex225]

I have the Realsimulator R3L Ultra and the DCS Viper feels absolutely amazing with a proper force-sensing stick. They have upgraded the FM quite a bit over the years and, in combination with the updated FLCS deadzone and stick gradient options, it's never been more responsive and realistic.

https://youtu.be/TzdE4lysN-I?si=Sk2JtCSf_QWVWXJm

I would explore your HOTAS setup and tweak the curves, deadzone, and stick gradient options to produce the best feel for your gear. 

Edited November 17, 2024 by Vortex225

[Q3ark]

On 11/10/2024 at 9:17 PM, mobile83 said:

Hello,

I'd like to discuss the F16's flight model with you because the flight sensations aren't great (that's my opinion), I find the aircraft heavy and not very manoeuvrable, the sensations of moving through the air aren't worthy of a jet, I feel like I'm flying a Boeing 737.

When I take the Mirage 2000, the feeling with the aircraft, the sensation of flying in CAT load or Air is incredible, the F16 in cat 3 seems so heavy to me.

That's normal? I don't really enjoy flying it any more because the electric flight controls seem to have a lot of inertia and not much precision. 

I hope that this will improve over time because I find it hard to want to fly it.

What do you have loaded onto the F16 when it feels like that? It’s a small lightweight fighter, when you load it up with fuel and bombs or mavericks and a tgt pod, it’s going to fly like a bus.

[Dragon1-1]

On 11/10/2024 at 10:17 PM, mobile83 said:

That's normal? I don't really enjoy flying it any more because the electric flight controls seem to have a lot of inertia and not much precision. 

You can tune it for your type of stick to remove the deadzone, but in general, CAT III is heavily limited, particularly compared to how things work in older jets. Viper has small wings and a single engine, the FBW system allows it to be safely flown with a very heavy payload, but you pay the price for that. Flip the switch to CAT I and it suddenly becomes a very different plane.

Also due to small wings, the Viper doesn't like being slow, particularly up high. Keep the speed up and AoA reasonable, and it flies just fine. If you get behind the curve, though, it turns into a pig. In particular, if you're trying to fly the CRUS page parameters, both max range or max loiter put you in a rather unfun flying regime. Good for ferrying, or getting back to base, but don't use this for anything tactical.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Dragon1-1

[Weta43]

Su-27 empty 264 kg/m^2, Max T.O. 532 kg/m^2. 532/264 = 100% increase

F-15 empty 224 kg/m^2, Max T.O. 546 kg/m^2, = 144% increase

F-16 empty 306 kg/m^2, Max T.O. 685 kg/m^2, = 127% increase, but 29% higher than an Su-27 fully loaded

[Nahemoth]

En 17/11/2024 a las 18:29, Vortex225 dijo:

I have the Realsimulator R3L Ultra and the DCS Viper feels absolutely amazing with a proper force-sensing stick. They have upgraded the FM quite a bit over the years and, in combination with the updated FLCS deadzone and stick gradient options, it's never been more responsive and realistic.

https://youtu.be/TzdE4lysN-I?si=Sk2JtCSf_QWVWXJm

I would explore your HOTAS setup and tweak the curves, deadzone, and stick gradient options to produce the best feel for your gear. 

Are you using the default settings?

[DummyCatz]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:17 AM, mobile83 said:

the electric flight controls seem to have a lot of inertia and not much precision. 

If you meant the pitch attitude is not stopping at where you want it and the aircraft keeps pitching up or down for some degrees when the stick is released, like a soap, then this is a bug that is being investigated. See:

 

[Cali]

On 11/17/2024 at 12:29 PM, Vortex225 said:

I have the Realsimulator R3L Ultra and the DCS Viper feels absolutely amazing with a proper force-sensing stick. They have upgraded the FM quite a bit over the years and, in combination with the updated FLCS deadzone and stick gradient options, it's never been more responsive and realistic.

https://youtu.be/TzdE4lysN-I?si=Sk2JtCSf_QWVWXJm

I would explore your HOTAS setup and tweak the curves, deadzone, and stick gradient options to produce the best feel for your gear. 

Are you currently or presently flying the viper? Trying to get where you say it's more responsive and realistic from.