1985 vs 2005 - aka will the DCS: F-15C allow us to disable modern features?

[fargo007]

43 minutes ago, SuperKermit said:

Exactly, same here.

I would much prefer a version that replicates a Cold War gone hot scenario. To me the F-15 is the pinnacle of fighter design of that era. And that ended  - at least per my definition - with the fall of the Berlin Wall in '89.

The addition of all the later developments just dilutes this experience.

But then what about it's relationship to the other more contemporary maps?   Syria, Iraq, PG, Kola.....  End of the day, they have to pick a horse and ride it.

[Bremspropeller]

Not just that.

With multiple 3rd party devs bringing out several variants of their jets with one packege, ED won't get away with just providing one variant at the same price IMHO.

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

If there's no way to "dial it back" to a 80s/90s version than i'm not that interested.
With the Cold War Germany map on the horizon, why would anyone be interested in yet another 2000s aircraft...

Well, here is the part you don't know, with the current president Germany is gona be the 67th state or something like that. 

2 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Not just that.

With multiple 3rd party devs bringing out several variants of their jets with one packege, ED won't get away with just providing one variant at the same price IMHO.

Yeah, that is a good point. 

3 minutes ago, fargo007 said:

But then what about it's relationship to the other more contemporary maps?   Syria, Iraq, PG, Kola.....  End of the day, they have to pick a horse and ride it.

I mean honestly I was really underwhelmed with Sinai when it came out cuz 73... But well recent world events have made the "modern" map at least somewhat relevant. And a "modern" eagle would fit Syria pretty well too. So like there are maps that a 05 eagle would fit, but really I find the whole obsession with modern silly as there is no modern opfor. Though I guess if we are doing the F35, that might mean other "modern" red jets could be made to the same standard of fidelity.  J-15 Ayooo. 

Edited January 17 by Harlikwin

[Mikey74]

This should it look like, not exactly but i think nearby. 

[Tenkom]

Please ED, don't listen to the "PVP-balance" people. That's not what DCS is about(for me at least).
That being said I am not opposed to choice. If there are options for older models that's great.

[Q3ark]

11 minutes ago, Tenkom said:

Please ED, don't listen to the "PVP-balance" people. That's not what DCS is about(for me at least).
That being said I am not opposed to choice. If there are options for older models that's great.

They don’t listen to those people thankfully. If people want balance then they should all fly the same module. 

[afnav130]

Just now, Q3ark said:

They don’t listen to those people thankfully. If people want balance then they should all fly the same module. 

Yep, people think the jet they fly should do everything and anything. Every jet, if modeled properly has strengths, and it has weaknesses. Learn those, of your jet and your opponents jet and go from there. Those who run to daddy whining about balance, need to go play War Thunder.

[bies]

Both should be included:

• 2005 F-15C which is already announced, to fit Hornet and Viper.
• And original 1985 F-15C MSIP II to unlock 20 years of F-15C career from 1985 to 2005, late Cold War, Desert Storm, Balkan War etc. When all F-15C scored all air kills. To be useble over Fulda Gap Cold War Gone Hot map, Iraq Desert Storm, to fight against/along all the DCS late Cold War modules like MiG-29. 9.12, Tornado IDS, Tomcat, MiG-21bis, A-6E, A-7E, Su-17, Mirage F.1, Bo-105, Gazelle L, Mi-24P, Kfir etc.

Original 1985 MSIP II already has the same cockpit and nearly all the systems like MPCD display, PACS weapon management system, F-15 ASCG grip, AN/ALR-56C RWR, AMRAAM wiring and integration etc. It would just require to disable Link-16, JHMCS and AIM-9X.

[twistking]

18 hours ago, Mikey74 said:

This should it look like, not exactly but i think nearby. 

Too many MFDs

[jaguara5]

Btw, this was posted from Wags little before the 2025 and beyond video was released. I'm all in for multiple ac versions. 

[twistking]

3 minutes ago, jaguara5 said:

Btw, this was posted from Wags little before the 2025 and beyond video was released. I'm all in for multiple ac versions. 

An A variant would be relatively similar to an early C, correct?

[SuperKermit]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb afnav130:

Every jet, if modeled properly has strengths, and it has weaknesses. Learn those, of your jet and your opponents jet and go from there.

Absolutely correct.

But tell me, what are the differences between firing an AMRAAM at a 30 miles target from an F-16 vs. from an F-18 or F-15? Is there any different skillset required?

Maybe one jet’s radar has better range than the other, but that’s about it.

The fascination in those Cold War scenarios lies exactly in the differences between aircraft and their respective strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one has the upper hand BVR, but the other might be better WVR. All that doesn’t matter if you are just lobbing Fox-3s at datalink targets and then go cold again. 

[Bremspropeller]

7 minutes ago, SuperKermit said:

Absolutely correct.

But tell me, what are the differences between firing an AMRAAM at a 30 miles target from an F-16 vs. from an F-18 or F-15? Is there any different skillset required?

Maybe one jet’s radar has better range than the other, but that’s about it.

The fascination in those Cold War scenarios lies exactly in the differences between aircraft and their respective strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one has the upper hand BVR, but the other might be better WVR. All that doesn’t matter if you are just lobbing Fox-3s at datalink targets and then go cold again. 

That's also the reason why a proper Cold War Viper would be a cool addition.

[bies]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

An A variant would be relatively similar to an early C, correct?

A bit different; early F-15C from 1979 had strenghtened wing for nearly full envelope 9G, a bit increased internal fuel tank for additional 1745 lbs and internal AN/ALQ-135 ECM.

When F-15A with 1000 lbs /450kg lighter airframe having even better high AoA/low speed maneuverability.

Cockpit:

 

[fargo007]

3 hours ago, SuperKermit said:

Absolutely correct.

But tell me, what are the differences between firing an AMRAAM at a 30 miles target from an F-16 vs. from an F-18 or F-15? Is there any different skillset required?

Maybe one jet’s radar has better range than the other, but that’s about it.

The fascination in those Cold War scenarios lies exactly in the differences between aircraft and their respective strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one has the upper hand BVR, but the other might be better WVR. All that doesn’t matter if you are just lobbing Fox-3s at datalink targets and then go cold again. 

The presence of the same missile on all those jets definitely doesn't make them equal at all in BVR.  

There's quite a bit more to it than that. And the F-15C brings all those extra things that make it better at this than the others.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

I think we shouldn't get an A and a C but a 1991 and mid 2000s versions of the jet, that would be easier. Only requiring them to disable some systems and making a different pilot model to completely match the aesthetics

Edited January 18 by NEW is my Callsign.

[Joch1955]

Well there is no reason why it can only come in one flavour, the F-14A/B is currently modeled circa late 90s, but a 70/80s version is being worked on.

It would probably make more sense to model the F15C first as a 2000ish circa version with the AIM-120 so it is compatible with other DCS jets.

Edited January 18 by Joch1955

[SuperKermit]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb fargo007:

And the F-15C brings all those extra things that make it better at this than the others.

Fine. And what does this mean? You are the guy that can shoot the farthest out and can turn cold even earlier than the other guy in an F-18. Now that must be thrilling!

[Harlikwin]

16 hours ago, twistking said:

An A variant would be relatively similar to an early C, correct?

There are some differences, but basically for early 80's before the C started to get the MSIP upgrades it was similar enough. Though I bet no DCS fighter aces want to fly without Chaff/Flares, well aside from whats packed into the airbrake.

 

[twistking]

4 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

[...] no DCS fighter aces want to fly without Chaff/Flares, well aside from whats packed into the airbrake.

Please elaborate!

[bies]

16 hours ago, NEW is my Callsign. said:

I think we shouldn't get an A and a C but a 1991 and mid 2000s versions of the jet, that would be easier. Only requiring them to disable some systems and making a different pilot model to completely match the aesthetics

Just to be clear, there were 4 main F-15C standards:

1. 1979 to 1984: Initial F-15C, similar to F-15A but a bit heavier, reinforced wing for 9G, a bit more internal fuel, added internal AN/ALQ-135 ECM, AN/ALR-45 flares/chaff, upgraded APG-63. Used in combat only by Saudi Arabia during 1991 Gulf War with 2 air kills Mirage F1.
2. 1985 to 2004: F-15C MSIP II, added new F100-PW-220 engines, PACS armament control, MPCD display, AN-ALR-56C RWR, AN/ARL-47 flare/chaff, improved AN/ALQ-135 band 4 ECM, NCTR IFF, PSP processor, ACSG HOTAS, pugraded HUD, partial NVG integration, AMRAAM integration and wiring. This variant achieved nearly all F-15C air kills, it was used in late Cold War in Europe, 1991 Gulf War operation Desert Storm with 36 air kills, 1993-1995 Balkan War operation Deny Flight, 1999 operation Allied Force with 2 air kills MiG-29.
3. 2005 to 2016: mid life upgrade, added Link-16, JHMCS, GPS-navigation, AIM-9X integration, APG-63v(1) with reliability and ECCM upgrade, newer computer. Used in Operation Iraq Freedom, no air kills as Iraq basically didn't have aviation anymore.
4. 2017 to 2026 pahse out: Golden Eagle, added AN/APG(v)3 AESA LPI radar, PAD Passive Attack Display with sensor fusion, AIM-120D integration, Sniper pod, new digital HUD classified AN/ALQ-135 ECM and AN/ALR-56C upgrades, classifed EPAWSS self protection. Used in patrols over Syria operation Inherent Resolve, no air kills.

 

 

[St4RgAz3R]

Personally i am glad they are making the newer one with all the bells and whistles like link 16, jhmcs, aim 9x . It's better to have them than not at all. If you don't want them, don't use them. If they made the earlier version it would be just like making the same flaming cliffs one with clickable buttons. Not a lot of people would be interested i think. Even the tomcat would be more modern now with the B(U) version coming. And it fits a lot better with the jets we have right now like the 16 and 18 and the strike eagle as well. The ideal would be to have a wider timeline that includes both phases but i don't know if ED is willing to spend so much time developing this.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

13 minutes ago, St4RgAz3R said:

and the strike eagle as well

Funny that you mention that: the Strike Eagle we have now is an early ‘90s version with some half-baked JDAM functionality slapped on.

[St4RgAz3R]

2 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Funny that you mention that: the Strike Eagle we have now is an early ‘90s version with some half-baked JDAM functionality slapped on.

This is due to the unfortunate events we all know. It was intented during development to get jhmcs , aim9x, sniper pod ,link 16 SIT page and many other modern stuff. And if there is no resolution and development sadly comes to a stop it would make even more sense for the C model to get this stuff in order to fill the gap left by the E 

[bies]

There is no need to argue. Both will be the great.

Edited January 19 by bies