Hyperlynx Posted February 13 Posted February 13 I'm trying to learn how to do a crosswind landing in the Viper. I've managed to find a lot of video tutorials for general aviation, but nothing specific to the Viper. For instance, this video seems generally useful: however a Viper doesn't handle like that aircraft. When I tried to sideslip it didn't work, I suppose because the FLCS just holds the aircraft in position for you if you roll slightly. That just leaves crabbing in, but in that case what do I do to straighten out before touchdown? Next thing: I have read that the HUD drift cutoff must not be used, and that if the flight path marker has an X through it then it means it's off-HUD and cannot be used. I've noticed that while it's like this, the FPM does seem to drift up and down as I would expect. Does this mean it does correctly reflect attitude, just not azimuth? Then I still use it with the landing bracket to set my AoA, but not use it to line up on the runway, right?
Czar66 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) Just go with it without kicking out the crabbing. Timestamped 2:04 and 12:07 further on. The tires will take some sliding as it is usual with fighter jets. The only source I got is practical experience with DCS + Briefing Room, as sometimes that app generates crazy winds, and some videos. Edited February 13 by Czar66
Hyperlynx Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 23 minutes ago, Czar66 said: without kicking out the crabbing I'm not sure what you mean by this. As in, just land in the crab, without un-crabbing before touchdown? That does seem to be what the Vipers in the video are doing, the azimuth of the plane doesn't seem to change. I don't really get how that works, though, unless the wheels are skidding the entire time during the aerobrake?
Theodore42 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) In the Viper the correct procedure is to land in the crab. Aside from that, do everything normally. It should straighten itself out on its own. I think the max crosswind component is 25 kts. There is a page or two on it in the HAF manual. I did a really old video on it, before all the landing gear updates, but I cover all the info from the manual. I drank too much coffee so I sound like a crazy person. EDIT: Everything different from the video makes landing in the crosswind EASIER! Current version of DCS is much easier than depicted. Edited February 13 by Theodore42
Nealius Posted February 13 Posted February 13 The -1 says wings-level, crabbed during the entire landing evolution. Once main gear touches down the ARI is disconnected. Use pedals to stay aligned with runway, use aileron to prevent wing rise. Aerobrake until approximately 100kts (significantly higher in DCS). That said, I like to touchdown with a very slight wing dip into the wind, with the upwind wheel touching down first. This increases landing rollout stability in my experience.
Hyperlynx Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nealius said: ARI What's this? Also, I thought that HAF manual was still classified (yes, despite being very easy to find copies of) Anyway, does all this mean that yes, you do just skid down the runway during the aerobrake? Edited February 13 by Hyperlynx
Nealius Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Aileron-Rudder Interconnect. It couples rudder with ailerons, e.g. when you move the stick for roll the rudder will move too. HAF -1 isn't classified. I believe it's ITAR restricted but not classified.
Hyperlynx Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 22 minutes ago, Nealius said: HAF -1 isn't classified. I believe it's ITAR restricted but not classified. Given that the internet is international (I'm Australian) that's kind of splitting hairs, don't you think? But in any case: are you really meant to just skid down the runway during aerobraking after landing crabbed?
razo+r Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Hyperlynx said: Given that the internet is international (I'm Australian) that's kind of splitting hairs, don't you think? Why make it easy when you can make it complicated. 1 hour ago, Hyperlynx said: But in any case: are you really meant to just skid down the runway during aerobraking after landing crabbed? After you touch down the aircraft will straighten itself so then you'll just do a normal aerobraking and rollout. There is nothing additional you have to do in a crosswind landing with the F-16.
Cab Posted February 13 Posted February 13 8 hours ago, Theodore42 said: In the Viper the correct procedure is to land in the crab. No wing down, top rudder?
razo+r Posted February 13 Posted February 13 18 minutes ago, Cab said: No wing down, top rudder? No, wings level and rudder only after touchdown.
Cab Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 minute ago, razo+r said: No, wings level and rudder only after touchdown. I wonder why that is?
razo+r Posted February 13 Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Cab said: I wonder why that is? Because of the ARI like Nealius mentioned above.
ED Team Solution Raptor9 Posted February 13 ED Team Solution Posted February 13 From the DCS F-16 Early Access Guide. 1 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head
Czar66 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Cab said: I wonder why that is? It is not a fully mechanical GA aircraft. Its fly by wire control surfaces are inter connected. You're not getting the GA results from GA procedures. *GA=General Aviation
unlikely_spider Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Czar66 said: It is not a fully mechanical GA aircraft. Its fly by wire control surfaces are inter connected. You're not getting the GA results from GA procedures. *GA=General Aviation In general aviation, we're not avoiding landing with a crab because our planes are not FBW, we're doing it to avoid extra stress on the landing gear. I wonder if the Viper gear are built specifically for this kind of sideways force. 2 Modules: Wright Flyer, Spruce Goose, Voyager 1
Czar66 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, unlikely_spider said: In general aviation, we're not avoiding landing with a crab because our planes are not FBW, we're doing it to avoid extra stress on the landing gear. This has nothing to do with what I wrote. Edited February 13 by Czar66
unlikely_spider Posted February 13 Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Czar66 said: This has nothing to do with what I wrote. Cool 1 Modules: Wright Flyer, Spruce Goose, Voyager 1
Tenkom Posted February 13 Posted February 13 2 hours ago, unlikely_spider said: In general aviation, we're not avoiding landing with a crab because our planes are not FBW, we're doing it to avoid extra stress on the landing gear. I wonder if the Viper gear are built specifically for this kind of sideways force. The way they are landing the vipers super lightly with the the nose held up after touchdown will mean that the force on the wheels will be very light at first and they will easily skid without stressing the landing gear struts too much. As the lift from the wings decreases gradually with the speed the wheels will gradually gain traction and hopefully straighten the plane out. I wonder if it's more important to straighten the plane out when landing a hornet since they tend to come down quite hard meaning the tires will have a lot of grip initally. 2
Cab Posted February 13 Posted February 13 9 hours ago, razo+r said: Because of the ARI like Nealius mentioned above. So, the F-16's FBW prevents cross controls like wing down, top rudder?
Hyperlynx Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 (edited) 15 hours ago, Raptor9 said: From the DCS F-16 Early Access Guide. But how come in the video linked by Czar they don't seem to be uncrabbing on touchdown? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-z2t5Zos4g I'm not sure this is the correct solution. I think Tenkom is probably right, that you do want to stay in the crab and let the wheels skid, with as little pressure on them as possible, until the nose comes down. Edited February 14 by Hyperlynx quoted wrong person
bbrz Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/13/2025 at 10:57 PM, Cab said: So, the F-16's FBW prevents cross controls like wing down, top rudder? Apparently. The only thing cross controlling the F-16 would do, is to greatly increase the possibility of departing controlled flight! i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
bbrz Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/13/2025 at 11:07 PM, Hyperlynx said: I'm not sure this is the correct solution. I think Tenkom is probably right, that you do want to stay in the crab and let the wheels skid, with as little pressure on them as possible, until the nose comes down. That's definititely the correct solution, but you don't wait with decrab until the nose comes down. You start with decrabbing as soon as both main wheels are on the ground. Just re-read the above procude. Interestingly in airline aviation this technique, which is the wrong one for an airliner, seems to occur more often since a few years. Looks like performing a correct crosswind landing isn't thaught anymore, like it's becoming a lost art. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Cab Posted February 27 Posted February 27 3 hours ago, bbrz said: Apparently. The only thing cross controlling the F-16 would do, is to greatly increase the possibility of departing controlled flight! I thought knife-edge passes required cross controls. Wing down and top rudder to keep flying straight.
bbrz Posted February 28 Posted February 28 (edited) Wing "down" for knife edge flight? Apart from that, knife edge flight isn't a high AoA maneuver. Edited March 2 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
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