F-15 Multi-Stage Improvement Program (MSIP)

[Mapi]

https://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f15_25.html

"new radar modes were added, such as track-while-scan, which made it possible to ripple-fire up to four BVR missiles at separate targets simultaneousl"

We are curious to see if that works and in MP too.

[doedkoett]

Why wouldn't you be able to? You can do that in the Viper and Hornet already. In the FC Eagle too, I am sure.
 

[TotenDead]

Will ecm affect that TWS like on the Mig-29/Su-27 or will jamming be useless against it like on other planes? 

[draconus]

27 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

Will ecm affect that TWS like on the Mig-29/Su-27 or will jamming be useless against it like on other planes? 

Different radars and different computers - why would you compare the two?

Currently jamming affects TWS tracks on FC F-15C and other aircraft.

[Wizard_03]

5 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Will ecm affect that TWS like on the Mig-29/Su-27 or will jamming be useless against it like on other planes? 

Should be pretty useless against it if they want to be accurate, APG-65v1/70 have several ECCM settings and the TWS modes (it has more then one) are reportedly very effective even compared to F-14/16/18 tws modes on those aircraft. All of which use solid state microelectronics let alone 1980s Soviet radars that use tubes.

In fact it's the primary attack mode. The F-15 was also the first fighter type aircraft to have an internal self protection jammer installed. So they definitely knew about jamming and took the EW environment very serious when they designed the aircraft and radar set, and it will be one of if not the most powerful radar in game. So it should have a significantly higher burn through range as well. Really no comparison with N001/N019 it's at least a  generation ahead of those radars. 

[TotenDead]

В 18.02.2025 в 18:02, Wizard_03 сказал:

Should be pretty useless against it if they want to be accurate, APG-65v1/70 have several ECCM settings and the TWS modes (it has more then one) are reportedly very effective even compared to F-14/16/18 tws modes on those aircraft. All of which use solid state microelectronics let alone 1980s Soviet radars that use tubes.

In fact it's the primary attack mode.  

So, you're saying that jamming is useless against radars? 

 

I don't know about TWS being the primary mode, maybe only in the game where radars are far from IRL capabilities. Afaik, most of the aim-120 kills were achieved in stt

[draconus]

5 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

So, you're saying that jamming is useless against radars? 

No.

[TotenDead]

7 минут назад, draconus сказал:

No.

Welp, then shouldn't TWS have problems when tracking targets that are jamming? I'm not saying it should be as affected as n001, but still

[draconus]

6 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

Welp, then shouldn't TWS have problems when tracking targets that are jamming? I'm not saying it should be as affected as n001, but still

Yes, it should have some problems. Probably similar to what is modeled in F-15E or better. We don't know if ED will decide to increase its burn through range or model it differently in the new F-15C.

[GGTharos]

10 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Welp, then shouldn't TWS have problems when tracking targets that are jamming? I'm not saying it should be as affected as n001, but still

You will still have a strobe in TWS.

STT tends to be better at dealing with jamming, TWS would be better at not triggering it.

[TotenDead]

10 часов назад, GGTharos сказал:

You will still have a strobe in TWS.

STT tends to be better at dealing with jamming, TWS would be better at not triggering it.

Maybe so, but the question is how would it be affected by jamming

[Wizard_03]

14 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Maybe so, but the question is how would it be affected by jamming

What kind of jamming? How powerful? Surly bolt on self protection suites from the 1980s shouldn't do too well against a modern 2010s radar. Again F-15C has multiple ECCM modes. Specifically to counter jamming. 

Edited February 23 by Wizard_03

[TotenDead]

7 часов назад, Wizard_03 сказал:

What kind of jamming? How powerful? Surly bolt on self protection suites from the 1980s shouldn't do too well against a modern 2010s radar. Again F-15C has multiple ECCM modes. Specifically to counter jamming. 

Since DCS is a game about a war among Nato countries, I'd say something like in-game F-16/18 jammers. Maybe ef-2000

[Wizard_03]

8 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Since DCS is a game about a war among Nato countries, I'd say something like in-game F-16/18 jammers. Maybe ef-2000

So your wondering if NATO fighters can stop their own jammers? Pretty sure they can since they built them, and use them. ECCM is a Signal intelligence problem. So all they have to do is analyze those singles in a controlled environment and come up with a counter which they will have had to do to build them in the first place. So they probably would have an even better time against those systems compared completely foreign ones they may or may not have had a chance to see actually working.

 

I definitely would expect EF-2000/F-35 suites to be more effective and cause more issues over contemporary aircraft like F-16/18 simply because they are newer and more powerful, I've heard claims the F-35s Electronic Attack modes can rival those of a dedicated EW aircraft. 

Edited February 23 by Wizard_03

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

There have been reports (believe them or don't) about the Typhoon ECM rendering the AMRAAM useless.

[TotenDead]

В 23.02.2025 в 21:06, Wizard_03 сказал:

So your wondering if NATO fighters can stop their own jammers? Pretty sure they can since they built them, and use them. ECCM is a Signal intelligence problem. So all they have to do is analyze those singles in a controlled environment and come up with a counter which they will have had to do to build them in the first place. So they probably would have an even better time against those systems compared completely foreign ones they may or may not have had a chance to see actually working.

 

 

That sounds illogical. Ecm developers can have access to radars of their aircraft so they'll likely jam those better than some foreign ones

[Wizard_03]

On 2/21/2025 at 6:45 AM, TotenDead said:

I don't know about TWS being the primary mode, maybe only in the game where radars are far from IRL capabilities. Afaik, most of the aim-120 kills were achieved in stt

Well you can't actually go STT without first entering a TWS mode in the real F-15. The exception being ACM modes. So yes it's first or primary mode when initiating an attack at BVR ranges. 

Edited February 26 by Wizard_03

[Wizard_03]

7 hours ago, TotenDead said:

That sounds illogical. Ecm developers can have access to radars of their aircraft so they'll likely jam those better than some foreign ones

Seems like your trying to jam up this thread.

[draconus]

9 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Well you can't actually go STT without first entering a TWS mode in the real F-15.

Are you sure you can't STT from RWS?

[NineLine]

Please do not discuss the acquiring or exchanging of protected documents on these forums, thanks. 

[Lyrode]

2025/2/27 AM6点26分，NineLine说：

Please do not discuss the acquiring or exchanging of protected documents on these forums, thanks. 

Temporarily removed those comments to double check if that's from a declassified manual.

[GGTharos]

On 2/25/2025 at 7:11 PM, Wizard_03 said:

Well you can't actually go STT without first entering a TWS mode in the real F-15. The exception being ACM modes. So yes it's first or primary mode when initiating an attack at BVR ranges. 

The APG-v3 which is an AESA radar would implement SWT, but for the older MSA (v1 or older), RWS is the primary search mode and you certainly can go STT from it.

[F-2]

From what I gather TWS did become more useful by the 90s.

[wilbur81]

On 3/1/2025 at 7:36 AM, F-2 said:

From what I gather TWS did become more useful by the 90s.

Interesting report. What source was this article from?

[Swiso]

World Air Power Journal ?