fixed internally Correct Landing Behaviour

[VampireNZ]

Not much to say really, I am sure ED are werll aware the landing and aerobrake performance of the current jet are a long way from reality. If not just ask any SME to comment on it or watch Movers vids.

Just would be nice if landing wasn't super-simplified, and the aerobrake wasn't so difficult to obtain/maintain. Mover has stated it should easily just hold a nose-high atitude with minimal backstick - currently need a LOT of backstick to get the nose up and maintained down to 100ish knots. The flight controls shouldn't stop working/lose a bunch of lift as soon as you touch the ground.

[VarZat]

+1 on this. You need to practicaly fight the plane to hold the flare, and if you overcorrect even slightly you tailstrike...

[Bremspropeller]

Ifyou look at the stab position in landing configuration, you can see there's something wrong with the whole aero model when in dirty config.

The stabs should be neutral to leading edge up (producing lift) on final approach. They aren't in game - instead they're producing a good deal of downforce, as soon as the trailing edge flaps on the wing deploy. The slower you go, the more the stabs go LE down. This is directly related to the aerobraking issue.

This has been reported by yours truly about two years ago (incl. video proofs clearly showing other behaviour on the real jet) and acknowledged, but nothing has been changed since.

Compare the stab position of this Block 52 throughout the whole pattern, to the stab position you'll obtain in game and you'll see what I mean.

 

Edited January 25 by Bremspropeller

[NineLine]

20 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

Not much to say really, I am sure ED are werll aware the landing and aerobrake performance of the current jet are a long way from reality. If not just ask any SME to comment on it or watch Movers vids.

Just would be nice if landing wasn't super-simplified, and the aerobrake wasn't so difficult to obtain/maintain. Mover has stated it should easily just hold a nose-high atitude with minimal backstick - currently need a LOT of backstick to get the nose up and maintained down to 100ish knots. The flight controls shouldn't stop working/lose a bunch of lift as soon as you touch the ground.

This and rotation pressure were adjusted in an update after that SME's feedback. I just tested and I had no issue.

Once your ground speed is too low, of course, the nose will want to drop.

If you are still seeing an issue, please supply a track and we can take a look. Thanks!

[VampireNZ]

44 minutes ago, NineLine said:

This and rotation pressure were adjusted in an update after that SME's feedback. I just tested and I had no issue.

Once your ground speed is too low, of course, the nose will want to drop.

If you are still seeing an issue, please supply a track and we can take a look. Thanks!

 

1:20 - Takeoff force required, which is obviously related to pitch control at low speed/stick forces reqd for aerobrake which I have also noted, and his comments @ 16:55 - full aft stick required and still can't roltate/hold nose up to aerobrake at 150 knots! If you don't 'catch' the nose with considerable back pressure after touchdown you won't be able to aerobrake at all. It is nothing to do with his curves as they have no effect at high stick deflections.

As a pilot and aircrew I can tell you that going full aft stick at pretty much touchdown speed following touchdown is a REAL bad idea (unless you want to jump into the air and go flying again really nose-high, stall, and crash probably or bend the gear), however in the DCS Viper it doesn't even lift the nose off the ground. It is quite hard to see his pointing cross in the HUD, but you can see on the AH he is 10 degrees nose-up during the final parts of approach, and should continue to maintain this profile after the main gear touches the ground with pretty much the same stick deflection, as even after landing an aircraft you are still 'flying' it....tail draggers teach you that!

Bottom line - the amount of aft stick/tail control surface deflection used to hold the approach profile of the aircraft should be the pretty much the same at 150 knots after you touch the ground as it was at 160 knots before you touched the ground.

But hey, this is in the Wish List section - not a bug report. I note I am not the only one bringing this to your attention - and only do so in the hopes of making the DCS Viper better and having landings that require finesse.

I have checked all update reports for the last two months since this video was made and see no mention of low speed pitch tuning specifically during T/O and LDG. I also don't use Movers vid as the sole reason it is wrong, but a basic commonsence understanding of aircraft physics as a pilot, flight engineer and aircraft mechanic for the past 30 years.

I appreciate this could be a major rework of the hor stab/pitch modelling in the FM so possibly beyond the scope of the developers, which is a shame - but as I mentioned it is a Wish none the less.

 

[NineLine]

We made adjustments following that video. If you are still having an issue, feel free to share a track and we will take a look.

Edit: Wait, my bad, it's fixed internally but not merged yet, so the fix was held up in testing. Sorry about that, busy Saturday.

So fixed internally, wait for it to release in an upcoming patch. Thanks.

[VampireNZ]

As my initial thread regarding this was closed and locked by moderators stating - "So fixed internally, wait for it to release in an upcoming patch. Thanks." was not actually fixed, or released in the upcoming patch - I have re-opened the bug thread as it has not been 'solved'

Refer to 

 

[NineLine]

Please share a new track. Thanks. 

[nickos86]

I agree with VampireNZ,  it feels like the behavior haven't changed at all. Perhaps we're missing something or landing with the wrong technique?

@NineLine Can you post your track with proper landing and aero-brake? I want to see how you do it and the stick deflections. Thanks!

[Nealius]

During aerobraking the nose does seem to come down 10+ kts earlier than the technique outlined in the -1 that's available to us plebs. Ground effect doesn't seem noticeable either compared to other modules that clearly have GE and are able to keep the nose up all the way down to 100 (or even 90) knots.

[Nedum]

@NineLine

As far as I can see, there was no fix for the F16's problem with the pitch behavior during the landing, which you yourself confirmed.
My Question is: does the internal fix actually make it into the patch?
If so, why wasn't it written into the notes?

DCS: F-16C Viper by Eagle Dynamics

• Added AIM-9 seekers tracking flares prior to the missile being launched.
• Added Throttle OFF/IDLE Mouse Click on the throttle (key command/binding no longer required).
• Fixed: PDLT cycle with EXP causes freeze/crash.
• Fixed: Using GMT causes a game crash.
• Fixed: Special key bind for parking brake / antiskid not working.
• Fixed: Damage model - Pilot cannot survive any explosive hit.
• Fixed: Dogfight mode gets stuck in NO RAD.

If not, why is a new track needed for a known issue that has not yet been solved? What exactly would change with a new track?
 

Edited February 21 by Nedum

[NineLine]

Ok, so thats a little clearer, so no fix was listed in the changelog so then probably no fix was merged yet. Please wait until its noted in the changelog. Thanks all.