waiting for resolution ED/RAZBAM Situation Info & Discussion

[cfrag]

15 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

That would mean that they could talk, they just choose not to.

Indeed - it means that they could act stupidly, they choose not to. 

Does this surprise you, or are you trolling?

[PhantomHans]

2 hours ago, Horns said:

If their counsel has advised that making this a public debate would not be in the company's interests, it's reasonable for them to say they *can't* do so.

I can believe that.

If they're actually the victim, I don't understand how telling their side makes their situation worse, however.

[cfrag]

Just now, PhantomHans said:

If they're actually the victim, I don't understand how telling their side makes their situation worse, however.

Which word in "anything you say" didn't you understand?

[Dragon1-1]

If the case is really this clear-cut, they're probably just worried about saying something stupid for lawyers to latch onto. Besides, they did make a statement when RAZBAM forced their hand. More likely, they did make some mistakes that, if officially admitted, would make their situation worse. Legal cases are largely based on tons of rule-fu with a side dish of psychological manipulation. 

Likely, ED knows it'll win, and also knows that any statement from them will be followed by a counter-statement from RAZBAM, and in the end it'd likely devolve into a formal version of a shouting match, one that they could possibly lose in the public's eyes. Especially if it turns out that instead of going to the lawyers straight away (most people don't want to involve those leeches if they don't have to), they tried to use some other means to pressure RAZBAM, to which the lawyers might take offense.

[Horns]

4 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

I can believe that.

If they're actually the victim, I don't understand how telling their side makes their situation worse, however.

I understand the idea - but ED have been clear that they won't comment on why they won't comment.

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

 

If they're actually the victim, I don't understand how telling their side makes their situation worse, however.

Lawyers. No, really, lawyers are why. Lawyers will try to find any purchase they can with their grubby little fingers and dig them in. If lawyers were on the side of an infectious bacteria, they'd see someone with a minor cut and proceed to try and make it larger with a crowbar.

Any chance they can to whiz in your Cheerios, they absolutely will take and then some. That is why ED's legal counsel is telling them to shut their traps; because they know what they would be doing if they were the opposing counsel.

It doesn't matter how minute a comment might be. They will make a mountain out of a molehill and then act as if it's Everest.

Edited April 21 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Tank50us]

30 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Lawyers. No, really, lawyers are why. Lawyers will try to find any purchase they can with their grubby little fingers and dig them in. If lawyers were on the side of an infectious bacteria, they'd see someone with a minor cut and proceed to try and make it larger with a crowbar.

Any chance they can to whiz in your Cheerios, they absolutely will take and then some. That is why ED's legal counsel is telling them to shut their traps; because they know what they would be doing if they were the opposing counsel.

It doesn't matter how minute a comment might be. They will make a mountain out of a molehill and then act as if it's Everest.

Bingo. It's just like a divorce case. If the father/husband says something like "Timmy got a black eye when we were playing catch", as innocent as it might sight, you can be the Wife/Mother's lawyer would latch onto that and use it as an example of abuse, and that the Dad shouldn't be allowed near the kids.

Same thing happens here. While you can bet that Rons lawyers are probably bald and 30yrs older by now (because he WON'T shut up), they'd still latch onto anything ED says if they think they can use it against them

[Manschy]

Hope this is an appropriate forum and I hope there are some more interested parties.

Regretfully, I noticed the lost of the Harrier in DCS. With the release of the Germany MAP, especially the cold war era, I had hope to arouse my yesterdays memories.

Missing a Harrier GR3 or GR7 intensely in DCS, I hope for a developer who can bring back the cold war atmosphere near the german border with Harrier Hides those days. Especially living nearby the former RAF Gütersloh airbase, where Harriers were stationed at in the 80s and 90s, I would like to see this great aircraft.

So what are your thoughts?

Will we have a shot at a Harrier, especially a british version? Asking this, because especially the German Map would be a great habitat for it...

I know Dino Cattaneo (Indiafoxtecho) did a great job on a Harrier too. So...is there still hope?

[Silver_Dragon]

A British harrier will be a problem, by RAZBAM, talking on the past, was a "license problem" by the military stament with some data restricted.

[bfr]

On 4/21/2025 at 5:43 AM, Mad Dog 762 said:

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?  

As HB would you want to take on that support and future development burden when a decent chunk of potential sales have already happened? Even if they got given the intellectual property for free its still not a small undertaking and would require an awful lot of due diligence (state of things currently, how much in the way of future features is already mapped out, how many more units they might expect to reasonably sell to cover costs).

[draconus]

On 4/21/2025 at 6:43 AM, Mad Dog 762 said:

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?

No thx, they struggle to update their own modules, like F-14.

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged

[PhantomHans]

May as well lock the thread.  Nobody in here is willing to listen and ED isn't willing to talk, so why bother.

[PhantomHans]

Never coming from Razbam.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, PhantomHans said:

May as well lock the thread.  Nobody in here is willing to listen and ED isn't willing to talk, so why bother.

we need to keep a place for people to vent and for me to merge threads to, the thread does serve a purpose, but the message has not changed, we continue to wait for a resolution to the dispute and that might take a long time.

thanks

[Silver_Dragon]

10 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

May as well lock the thread.  Nobody in here is willing to listen and ED isn't willing to talk, so why bother.

Why? Because some don't get the answers they want, or because court proceedings aren't a forum for open discussion?

Are we just looking for a "headline"?... Life isn't black and white, it's a set of gray areas, and honestly, no one here wants to be in court with a lawyer who will use any ruling from the opposing party to embezzle them. The situation is already so tense that they want to add fuel to the fire...

[PhantomHans]

Just now, Silver_Dragon said:

Why? Because some don't get the answers they want, or because court proceedings aren't a forum for open discussion?

Are we just looking for a "headline"?... Life isn't black and white, it's a set of gray areas, and honestly, no one here wants to be in court with a lawyer who will use any ruling from the opposing party to embezzle them. The situation is already so tense that they want to add fuel to the fire...

Please stop quoting me.  I'm tired of getting notifications pointing to this thread.

I really don't want to hear anything you have to say.

[draconus]

2 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

I'm tired of getting notifications pointing to this thread.

[Silver_Dragon]

On 4/21/2025 at 5:43 AM, Mad Dog 762 said:

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?  

I don't think so.

If that were the case, you'd be putting HB in a difficult position, as they'd not only have to revise three modules (including the South Atlantic map unless the ORBX team transfers it to them), but would also throw their entire planning for current and future modules into disarray.

Another problem is understanding how these modules are coded, and it wouldn't be unusual to have to tear down many parts of the code to rewrite them from scratch and recreate all the 3D models.

Another problem you could face is if one of the former RAZBAM team members could ask you for copyright, both for the code and for the 3D objects.

In other words, a nightmare. I could almost say that a new third party would be better off taking over their work, even if they had to start from scratch.

Edited April 22 by Silver_Dragon

[bfr]

20 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

I don't think so.

If that were the case, you'd be putting HB in a difficult position, as they'd not only have to revise three modules (including the South Atlantic map unless the ORBX team transfers it to them), but would also throw their entire planning for current and future modules into disarray.

Another problem is understanding how these modules are coded, and it wouldn't be unusual to have to tear down many parts of the code to rewrite them from scratch and recreate all the 3D models.

Another problem you could face is if one of the former RAZBAM team members could ask you for copyright, both for the code and for the 3D objects.

In other words, a nightmare. I could almost say that a new third party would be better off taking over their work, even if they had to start from scratch.

Ideally you'd hope some of the previous team could be roped in with anyone taking it on, for the sake of continuity and getting any fresh developers up to speed if nothing else.

Like you say though, its not an instant no-brainer if anyone does fancy considering trying to take it on.  And that is before you get to figuring out what the IP is worth in monetary terms for Razbam to pass it over (further muddied if they in turn still owe the devs money).

[Czar66]

Man....leave other 3rd parties out of this. HB has plenty of stuff of their own to take care of.

[Zebra1-1]

4 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

May as well lock the thread.  Nobody in here is willing to listen and ED isn't willing to talk, so why bother.

You clearly don't understand how legal matters work.

[scommander2]

On 4/21/2025 at 12:43 AM, Mad Dog 762 said:

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?  

Off topic a bit, ED may be a good candidate for F-15E since ED is making F-15 C/D with full-fidelity. 

[Manschy]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Manschy:

Hope this is an appropriate forum and I hope there are some more interested parties.

Regretfully, I noticed the lost of the Harrier in DCS. With the release of the Germany MAP, especially the cold war era, I had hope to arouse my yesterdays memories.

Missing a Harrier GR3 or GR7 intensely in DCS, I hope for a developer who can bring back the cold war atmosphere near the german border with Harrier Hides those days. Especially living nearby the former RAF Gütersloh airbase, where Harriers were stationed at in the 80s and 90s, I would like to see this great aircraft.

So what are your thoughts?

Will we have a shot at a Harrier, especially a british version? Asking this, because especially the German Map would be a great habitat for it...

I know Dino Cattaneo (Indiafoxtecho) did a great job on a Harrier too. So...is there still hope?

What happened?

I did post this deliberately in the Off-Topic forum to maybe get serious answers and not to attend to any pros and cons regarding Razbam.

So why did you merge my comment into this thread? Why not directly into the spam folder? Disappointing, I just was interested into a Harrier alternative .

Done this, no other interested user will discuss the topic either will find it....

Is this the standard dealing here inside?

[draconus]

33 minutes ago, Manschy said:

So why did you merge my comment into this thread?

You wrote about "missing Harrier" so one might read it as the regret about Razbam's Harrier withdrawn from the shop recently Anyway there are no official plans either from ED or from 3rd parties to make any Harrier module. You can wish for one here:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/207-dcs-core-wish-list/