Air to Air refueling physics

[Cal1664]

Some better A2A refueling physics woukd be a great addition. A good wave of the hose as you attach would be great. Woukd also be amazing if the basket didn't auto disconnect when full. 

[Kuezy]

Totally agree!

[FELIX2013BRASIL]

+ One. I'm praying for it.

[Blackhawk163]

I remember the first time I did AAR in that other sim. Watching the basket oscillate and then the connection wave. Chefs kiss right there

[Tom P]

Only if this was talked about before. 

[HanuXXL]

I also wish that the basket would not autodisconnect within seconds if I somehow manage to catch it.

[Czar66]

1000% agree. A ton of dynamics missing.

3 minutes ago, HanuXXL said:

I also wish that the basket would not autodisconnect within seconds if I somehow manage to catch it.

It doesn't. You need to keep inside its tolerance box. Pilot side issue.

[HanuXXL]

24 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

1000% agree. A ton of dynamics missing.

It doesn't. You need to keep inside its tolerance box. Pilot side issue.

Explaining a joke is not mandatory

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, HanuXXL said:

Explaining a joke is not mandatory

Ah, my bad. It went over my head.

[draconus]

Well, the hose connection wave is just a nice visual effect for a start but:

• the basket should react to aerodynamic forces near the aircraft (escape from the nose)
• the basket/hose should give a little stabilisation after connection and push back with minimal force
• boom should give a lot of stabilisation after connection (should hold the fighter size aircraft easily if trimmed and set proper power)
• the basket/boom should obey physics even when it's not intended for us (when buddy or AI is also in AAR process)
• the basket/boom should not autoconnect until an inch from the actual connection and the shape of basket/receptacle should ease up sliding in
• the basket/boom should not automatically disconnect after getting filling up
• the probe, basket, hose or boom can be damaged (including keeping the broken basket on the probe in some cases, hooking up the hose)
• no clipping of basket/hose or boom over the aircraft body
• some fuel spills during connections and disconnections
• option for both types of refueling on capable aircraft
• more wobbly basket depending on wind/turbulence settings
• no possibility of connecting from the the side or backwards

What did I miss?

Edited April 23 by draconus

[Dangerzone]

25 minutes ago, draconus said:

Well, the hose connection wave is just a nice visual effect for a start but:

• the probe, basket, hose or boom can the damaged (including keeping the broken basket on the probe in some cases, hooking up the hose)

This needs to be linked with 'indestructible', so no damage occurs if aircraft is indestructable. (To allow for training missions/people practicing). 

26 minutes ago, draconus said:

What did I miss?

Um... option for 'auto-assist' to autopilot/take over? 

But more seriously:

• Painted white lines on the hose would be grouse. 

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

What did I miss?

• AFAIK drogues only allow fuel transfer when extended within a certain range (hose & drogue cannot be pushed in too far, nor can it be extended too far).

This would mean that we would need markings on the hose where applicable.

• Boom-drogue adapter kit ("Iron Maiden")

 

Edited April 23 by Northstar98

[Northstar98]

30 minutes ago, draconus said:

Yes, but that is already implemented - observe the fuel flow and/or lights on the pod.

Fuel still transfers regardless of the lights in my testing, it's only when I disconnect does fuel transfer actually stop.

Edited April 23 by Northstar98

[draconus]

On 4/23/2025 at 12:34 PM, Northstar98 said:

Fuel still transfers regardless of the lights in my testing, it's only when I disconnect does fuel transfer actually stop.

You're right. Just tested F-14 and KC-130.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 4/23/2025 at 10:45 AM, Northstar98 said:

Boom-drogue adapter kit ("Iron Maiden")

Right? People aren’t complaining enough already about refuelling being hard… That system is for the true hard-core

[Tom P]

On 4/23/2025 at 2:25 AM, Dangerzone said:

Um... option for 'auto-assist' to autopilot/take over? 

Are you that person that requested a autopilot handoff so it could do it for you? It's not hard at all. That's what she said

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, Tom P said:

Are you that person that requested a autopilot handoff so it could do it for you? It's not hard at all. That's what she said

I can AAR quite fine, both boom and drogue. The comment was meant tongue in cheek - hence the two emoji's. 

[Tom P]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

I can AAR quite fine, both boom and drogue. The comment was meant tongue in cheek - hence the two emoji's. 

Proud of you. Someone the other week requested to have the game do the refueling process for you.

[MAXsenna]

Proud of you. Someone the other week requested to have the game do the refueling process for you.

We get that suggestion every two months.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[skywalker22]

On 4/26/2025 at 1:44 AM, Tom P said:

Proud of you. Someone the other week requested to have the game do the refueling process for you.

I really hope that never happens. DCS is a simulator, and AAR is one of the major aspects of this it, so it has to be a manual work at all times.

But I hope for the implementations @draconus stated. That's what we would like to have.

[Dragon1-1]

On 4/22/2025 at 5:00 PM, Czar66 said:

It doesn't. You need to keep inside its tolerance box. Pilot side issue.

For what it's worth, that is unrealistic. With the basket, once you're in, you may rip off the probe, or the basket, but displacing outside some arbitrary box the sim wants you to stay in won't cause the basket to suddenly phase through the probe and return to its extended position. You can disconnect if you end up too far back, but not from getting too far forward, and to the sides, it depends on how much hose you've got left. If you slide forward and sideways, then as long as the probe doesn't snap off, you should be able to return and resume tanking. The crew can cut the fuel flow off if you're out of the box, but they don't have a whole lot of control over the basket.

[MAXsenna]

On 4/23/2025 at 8:55 AM, draconus said:

What did I miss?

No upside-down refueling for booms. 

[ST0RM]

The other issue I see frequently, is the sine wave effect at contact. Even more pronounced when a receiver chases the basket. This, can and will, result in the probe snapping off and drogue damage. 

Upon offload complete, the hose does not auto-disconnect. The MPRS panel is preset to a fuel offload number and once that is reached, the Pod Valve cycles from OPEN back to ARMED. A coordinated disconnect call is given by the boom operator, to the receiver. 

And yes, hose markings are needed to stay within the envelope. 
See this thread for visuals

 

[Czar66]

20 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

For what it's worth, that is unrealistic. With the basket, once you're in, you may rip off the probe, or the basket, but displacing outside some arbitrary box the sim wants you to stay in won't cause the basket to suddenly phase through the probe and return to its extended position. You can disconnect if you end up too far back, but not from getting too far forward, and to the sides, it depends on how much hose you've got left. If you slide forward and sideways, then as long as the probe doesn't snap off, you should be able to return and resume tanking. The crew can cut the fuel flow off if you're out of the box, but they don't have a whole lot of control over the basket.

Pretty much we all know. The whole system needs an overhaul, perhaps 're design'. It saddens me the state that it's in.

[ShuRugal]

I'd just like it if the basket didn't magically phase sideways off the probe because i strayed outside of a radar-beam-thin cone behind the pod.

 

The advantage of drogue-and-probe fueling is supposed to be that, once hooked up, you kinda stay hooked up.  the hose will drag the nose of the plane towards the pod, making it way easier to stay connected IRL than in the sim.  while the basket can absolutely be ripped off the hose, it takes a LOT more force than is required to keep the nose of the plane in line with the pod, unless the pilot is asleep at the controls or tries to intentionally maneuver away....