Let's make DCS more beginner-friendly.

[Tom Kazansky]

9 hours ago, Tom P said:

Speaking of Maps.. Caucasus needs a remake, its the most important map in DCS especially when it comes to beginners.

"Yeah", a 200 GB high ground-detailed update of Caucasus map will make DCS more beginner-friendly!? I disagree.

Caucasus is the only map that works here on my 800$ spare PCs, so if ED decides to update it, I highly recommend to keep the old version as a compatible option.

Maybe the big PC-trash-date after ending Win10 will change something in that regard, but for now plz let this one beginner-friendly map stay as it is.

The guys I introduced DCS to and got lost in their beginning stated it would be useful to have:

1) that one "Start your experince" button in the main menu. Whatever that could be. A flight school (not to teach flying but introducing DCS to new users. Like a training mission with a free module hot starting on ramp or runway. Maybe explaining how keybinds work if the user asks for that.)

2) built-in keybindings for all/most of the sticks/HOTAS or controllers available (user community download sections are very nice but not for beginners imho)

3) cold-start tutorials/training missions for quick cold-starts that do not include all those tests of systems that never fail anyway as an option! (Full procedures are obviously needed by most hard core simmers here, but may scare some new users.)

 

 

[SharpeXB]

Having worthwhile pre-assigned commands would require some sort assignment Wizzard. That way the game won’t assign rudders or throttles to sticks for players with separate controls. Or assign hat switch view commands to players with head tracking or VR. Truth be told I don’t see why mapping controls is such an obstacle. It’s already quite self-explanatory. And any new system shouldn't mess up assignments for current players. 
 

5 hours ago, cfrag said:

If you are smart, you also allow the player to copy your current settings for 'core' controls to all your planes.

You can do this already with the Save/Load Profile feature. Obviously it will only work for common commands though. Anything like basic Flight Control axes, Flaps, Brakes, Zoom View etc. 

[Rudel_chw]

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

To make DCS more BEGINNER friendly it would mainly have to do with the upfront cost of getting into DCS.

 

Honestly, I don't see what more can ED do about it, the Sim is already free to download with two aircraft and two maps. 

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

You got the big name DCS youtubers saying you need a $4k PC to have a good starting point which is already a turn off.

 

You take youtuber's saying as absolute truth?  I started on DCS with a PC that didn't cost half as much, and which I already owned and used for other games. I already owned a decent joystick as this was not my first simulator I ever flew.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

About $500 up front for a module/map(don't forget steam users don't have the trial program), Campaigns, hotas, pedals, headtracking.

 

Again, the beginner already has access to two planes and two maps ... which he can use to learn the ropes. I flew both the Su-25T and the TF-51 for many hours before purchasing my first DLC aircraft. I purchased a cheap headtracker (this one: https://delanclip.com/product/delanclip-gamer-pro/?srsltid=AfmBOopeMxPLKWPonnhLpWgYwtccvTQFNR9d5I3FUPLqoPQrlVXGFWBx) once I was hooked by DCS, I added pedals many years later, when I became interested on helicopters, with the Mi-8, so these hardware purchases were spaced over a pretty long time, never did I felt like the cost was excessive.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

A DEDICATED HARDDRIVE....

 

Not really, I needed a large drive only after I had purchased quite a lot of Maps, aircraft use up much less space than maps.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Yeah an Xbox controller gets the job done after you figure out how to map it and use the modifiers.

 

You need to figure that out with any controller you want to use, not just the Xbox.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Speaking of Maps.. Caucasus needs a remake

 

It was remade already, for DCS 2.5  .. and it is perfectly usable as it is by a beginner ... and you can always fly at Marianas if you really need a map of more modern vintage.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

I don't think it takes long even for a beginner to realize a 20 year old game is still using 20 year old assets. It's 2025, buyers expect better looking models especially for the price of getting into DCS.

 

You do realize the price of the core assets is free, isnt it?  .. and ED is slowly upgrading them.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

DCS has a very limited single player experience

 

Maybe you are speaking for yourself .. I've played SP since 2013 and don't find it limited at all. Even if you don't want to get involved with the mission editor, there are literally hundreds of SP missions and Campaigns that you can download for free from User Files.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

and a pretty toxic multiplayer community.

 

Yeah, I agree with that statement .. tried MP with all my heart for over a year, but eventually I had to realize that I enjoy DCS more when playing just by myself,

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

A beginner requires a lot of learning, which is fine but there is no way to fast forward through that. Single player doesn't hold most peoples hands enough ..

 

Well, of course .. if a beginner hates to study and learn, then they are on the wrong Sim and should take an easier one. I learned DCS quite easily, having a lot of Youtubers like Bunyap, Tricker, 104 maverick, and many others, who holded my hand on this journey.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Like BN said there's a giant learning curve. It takes a few days to get good at DCS, not 4 hours over a few day period. A legit 48-74 hours to get proficient at DCS. With that said maybe add more starting aircraft so user aren't dropping a ton of cash up front.

 

They have two already for that role, but I would like to have a free helicopter by ED.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

I don't know how many people touch the T-51, I never touched it, its not appealing.

 

That's your preference ... I began using the TF-51 once I got a head tracker and found it very enjoyable, even if it can't shoot at anything.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

You want a beginner to learn in a tail dragger... yeah ok.

 

Even today, many real life pilots start learning on a tail dragger, for example:

 

 

to me the TF-51 was a very satisfying challenge to learn, and led to me purchasing the Bf-109 afterwards ... shielding the beginners from this experience is not good in my opinion.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Not sure how often the L-39, C-101, or Yak-52 are being bought but those would be a pretty good starting list of aircraft to pair with the Su-25

 

The C-101 was developed by a third party, not sure if they would enjoy having to give their aircraft for free. 

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

or even a flaming cliffs F-15C. So they can get a decent BVR experience that goes past 15 miles.

 

They can use the Free-to-try mode to get some experience on the F-15C ... but I fail to see that BVR is a priority for a beginner, learning to fly properly would be more important in my opinion.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Most of the training for the modules are pretty dated, boring, and not engaging. "ok now look at this yellow box, it's highlighting a switch, flip it"

 

I have to agree, and I wish ED would give more importance to the training missions. I know many people dislike Razbam after the debacle we witnessed on past months, but all their aircraft had great training missions that set an example to follow,

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

and I know a lot of beginners are looking to get into the air right away and don't bother touching the chucks guides/manuals or watch youtube guides.

 

That kind of beginners should really look into a simpler Sim, why fly a study-level simulator if they dislike the learning and can't read even an illustration-heavy manual like Chuck's Guides ?

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

They want people to hold their hand and coach them through the motions.

 

I have zero interest on coaching anyone lazy enough to not read the manuals.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

And for those on single player, how many of them know about the user file section?

 

I have no way of knowing the percentage of users who uses it, but on my own case I learned about its existence a short time after starting on DCS, more or less about the same time I discovered this Website ... both the Forum and User Files are right there, on the website menu.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

They're most likely buying campaigns and learning off of those, which is already spending more money.

 

A Campaign is not a learning tool, but an entertainment experience and for that it provides hours of enjoyment for a pretty small price.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

Hurry up and wait! Hurry up and buy your new favorite shiny toy. Now wait for the next 5 years while it sits in Early Access. Oh hey this current patch just broke your favorite aircraft? Well that sucks, wait till the next patch. 

 

I fail to see what this ranting paragraphs have to do with making DCS more friendly?

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

How many beginners buy a EA module but leave DCS before seeing the module complete because their sick of the wait?

 

I have no idea, on my personal case I fly each Module "as is" ... if a targeting Pod or Weapon is not ready yet, I simply skip it over and learn the rest of the systems and weapons. I can always return to the aircraft in the future if I want to, meanwhile learning some other aircraft.

 

12 hours ago, Tom P said:

There's no roadmaps to somewhat gauge a timeline on completion or when some new feature is coming out. 

 

Again, on my case, I have zero interest on readmaps or timelines .. I use DCS as is, and do not get frustrated with missing elements, instead enjoying what we already have. But I admit that from time to time I add Wishlist items so that ED can know what Users look for.

 

Best regards to everyone 

 

Eduardo.

Edited June 17 by Rudel_chw

[Tom P]

That's cool and all man but I also have data from surveys that expand past the same couple dozen people that lurk this forum. Just because it worked for YOU doesn't mean it's it's good for others. I'm not going to sit here and bicker back and forth. What I said was a collective input from over 100 users from surveys I conducted. 

[SharpeXB]

14 hours ago, Tom P said:

You got the big name DCS youtubers saying you need a $4k PC to have a good starting point which is already a turn off.

That’s a bit of a stretch. Perhaps social media is disinformation in this regard. DCS is actually not a very demanding game to run.

14 hours ago, Tom P said:

About $500 up front for a module/map

That’s totally false. None of the maps or modules cost this much. I got into DCS for $20 on a Steam Sale. There are sales all the time

14 hours ago, Tom P said:

hotas, pedals, headtracking.

Nobody needs these just to get started with the game. Any simple controller or joystick will do. Head tracking can actually be done for free.

14 hours ago, Tom P said:

A beginner requires a lot of learning, which is fine but there is no way to fast forward through that.

There’s not, but a 14 year-old could teach themselves this stuff. It just requires a certain degree of interest or motivation. 

15 hours ago, Tom P said:

I know a lot of beginners are looking to get into the air right away and don't bother touching the chucks guides/manuals or watch youtube guides.

Sorry but DCS is not for them, this just isn’t that type of game. 

15 hours ago, Tom P said:

Not once have I seen a DCS sponsored video to this day.

Well now you have!

 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Tom P said:

What I said was a collective input from over 100 users from surveys I conducted. 

No doubt if you asked 100 average gamers you’d get responses like “I don’t want to read a manual” or “I don’t have a joystick”. That’s not surprising. Not much that can be done about that, DCS isn’t for everyone. 

Edited June 17 by SharpeXB

[buceador]

4 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Even today, many real life pilots start learning on a tail dragger, for example:

I would say some, not many, it is not the norm, tricycle gear represents the vast majority of PPL training, even back when I did my PPL (late 90s), nobody was offering tail draggers 

[Baldrick33]

It took me a while of searching for the gun trigger and safety mappings to discover the free Mustang didn't have guns! So I tried the SU25 to discover it was a slug. That is my recollection of DCS for the first time.

Personally I think the free stuff should have guns and a faster jet to give a greater taster.

DCS is many things to many people and trying to push people through any kind of training program or career route could prove detrimental. Flying isn't that hard, doing it properly and by real world procedures is a different matter. DCS offers the possibility for non pilots to fly a range of pretty exotic aircraft in combat scenarios or just for the fun of flying. You can choose whether you wish to fly it as close to how real military pilots do or go a bit rogue. Either way doing it with a flight model and systems that are as realistic as possible is somehow more fun for me than other supposedly more accessible titles.

I would like to see more ED supplied quick (and relatively easy) missions and a bit more resource to keep them updated with radio settings tuned for correct ATC and so on. Once the user has the bug, finding their way around user downloadable files, advanced control settings and even the mission editor really don't seem that onerous.

Unless ED decide they want to become the iRacing of the flight combat sim world with matchmaking and behaviour control then providing the tools for the multiplayer community to manage their own servers and communications seems a prudent choice. It will IMHO always be a small but enthusiast subset of a niche genre.

 

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

Personally I think the free stuff should have guns and a faster jet to give a greater taster.

I honestly don't understand this call for more free stuff. As mentioned numerous times above - ED have a 2 week trial on most maps, and most aircraft (which resets every 6 months). A person could go and 'taste' 12 different aircraft during that time and then rinse and repeat again until they find what they're looking for. That's extremely generous. 

If what ED has offered in the way of free options (combination of free maps, free aircraft and the trial period) isn't enough and it's still a hurdle for new players, then I would question how much those types of players would be willing to invest into DCS modules after all.  

I'm all for making DCS more beginner friendly, but I think ED have actually done a better job than most with the free/trial stuff.

Maybe part of the issue is that DCS is designed for a niche market? 

I think you've hit something though with your mentioning of iRacing and the MP / match making though!

A big difference I see between DCS and other flight sims is that DCS is reportedly mostly SP. The others that I know of seem to thrive in a MP community. On wondering if DCS has gotten most of the way it can in the SP community and the rest is diminishing returns? Could the answer to catching a larger number of fish be a larger and more diverse MP environment where the other game/sims seem to thrive?  However the MP side of DCS is left to community members to create environments for, and provide peer support - and this is an area I see that DCS lacks in... official support for the MP environment. 

We have had excellent 3rd party support/contributions with MIST, MOOSE, SRS, OverlordBot, Special-K's Bot, etc... but this is more in spite of, not really due to the support ED has given to these communities. It seems each new change they make that could support the MP community falls 'just short' of what the MP community have asked for. Look at the dynamic spawning.

It's absolutely fantastic to not have to put down individual aircraft anymore... but one of the calls was to have the ability to dynamically place FARPS on the map and spawn from them, so that the players themselves add to the dynamic nature. This was so close to being done (so close, it can be done with a hack with a .lua file) - but ignored by ED. There are countless examples of ED not engaging well with the MP content creators, and I suspect we've been bleeding talent that is getting tired and burned out of waiting for ED to actually connect and listen or be more supportive in this area and fixing bugs they introduce with a new update in a timely manner. (Instead of taking 2 or 3 years to look into them again).

When I look at these other more popular flight games/sims... one thing they seem to have in common is a thriving MP community. This brings in more MP options with real ATC, more engagements, more diverse environments, more bringing friends onboard, etc. Something where DCS unfortunately doesn't raise to it's potential that it could thrive in too. But ED have never appeared to be that worried about this. Maybe they're not after a larger community. Maybe they're happy just being a niche game with a niche market and are happy to coast along with what they're doing with the current customer base. I mean - do we even have a single official/commercial MP campaign? 

The other area lacking in DCS is the dynamic gameplay. Thankfully this is something ED have known and have been working on for considerable time - however again it seems they are prioritizing only on the SP side of things. Hopefully the DCE will be a major leap forward in attracting much more attention to DCS. I would like to think too that this time will be different and they'll actually be considering the MP side of things more than usual, along with consideration for MP content creators / server hosters with their plans for the DCE, but I have my reservations that we'll see more of the same as we have in the past for the MP side of things, and it'll be the lesser consideration. 

Edited June 17 by Dangerzone