Engine Stops

[-Rudel-]

And for those that hate FB with updated info too

 

[Ghostrider 147]

1 hour ago, Holbeach said:

I have had 5 engine stops today, all on approach to the carrier..

It's never happened before.

I though of mixture, which I never touch, for simplicity. 

Here's one that didn't put me in the sea.

Should the MP read 30 with the engine stopped?

..

F4U carrier U strip 4 prop stop .trk 1.74 MB · 3 downloads

Your oil temperature is way over the maximum limits. When flying slow, like when on carrier approaches, make sure to open your oil cooler flaps about 30 to 50%. Your engine blew here because it overheated. Other than that nice landing btw  

[Saxman]

20 minutes ago, GTFreeFlyer said:

Here is a post from M3 today for those who haven’t seen it:

 

The problem is whether these are "You have X minutes until kaboom. Period." or "You have X minutes and it MIGHT kaboom." Because those limits got exceeded in the field, (if it came down to "following the book" and "not get shot down," I know which choice I'd make) and most pilots just got a stern talking-to from the ground crew while the engine was torn down for maintenance/repair afterwards.

And that's my whole problem with how engine heat has been historically modeled in flight sims: They inevitably make it an artificial hard wall where exceeding the book is going to kill you, rather than exceeding the book is just going to piss off your crew chief and HE'LL kill you when you get back to base.

A much more realistic short-term response would be loss of maximum power. Total engine failure might happen in extreme cases, but isn't necessarily a given. Most of the worse effects were the result of stress and damage over a period of time, not just one sortie (thus engine tear downs if the power limits were exceeded). IIRC in lab conditions an R-2800 was run for DAYS at maximum power without ill-effect.

Edited 17 hours ago by Saxman

[Rudel_chw]

49 minutes ago, Ghostrider 147 said:

Your oil temperature is way over the maximum limits.

this is why a track file is so useful when diagnosing issues .. don’t get mad when someone that wants to help asks for one. 

[primus_TR]

51 minutes ago, -Rudel- said:

And for those that hate FB with updated info too

 

Maybe put this important piece of information in the Corsair section, rather than under an obscure title as 2025 Post Release Updates in the general M3 forum? It'd be also a good idea to post module-related information on the DCS forum also. 

[Rhayvn]

The question is, is the 5 minutes time limit (It's more like just over 4 minutes from my tests) a total time for that flight, or 5 minutes at a time.  If so, some direction on how long we need to wait to go back into WEP to reset the timer would be nice.  From testing going into and out of WEP MAPs and adding up the time, it's a total of 5 minutes in the short term and the engine loses significant power and will seize if you do not back it off. 

I tried using WEP for 4 minutes and then going to low power cruise for about 10 minutes.  Then back into WEP.  It lasted another 4 minutes and I got the low water light just before the engine losing power.

Hopefully this is just a simplified modeling step because it seems solely tied to MAP and time.  I have not even tested if landing and refueling resets the timer.  If it does not, then it's even more artificial.  But, with the WEP-Cruise-WEP test, it seem like it does slowly reset.

Edited 14 hours ago by Rhayvn

[Charley]

I have been trying to practice carrier approaches & have found that my engine  quits most of the time after just one or two approaches. I see that the cylinder head temperature drops very easily with the rpm at 2400 & the manifold between 20 & 30 usually. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried both leaving the cowl flaps alone after spawning into the carrier landing mission & also continually adjusting them , but the engine always seems to quit. I had to give up for now on the Corsair School campaign carrier qualification mission since the engine doesn't last long enough for me to do 5 landings (not that I could do that many anyway, I'm new to this, but the engine thing makes it doubly hard). Here's a track.  Thanks in advance for any tips.

F4u engine quit.trk

[GTFreeFlyer]

1 hour ago, Charley said:

I have been trying to practice carrier approaches & have found that my engine  quits most of the time after just one or two approaches. I see that the cylinder head temperature drops very easily with the rpm at 2400 & the manifold between 20 & 30 usually. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried both leaving the cowl flaps alone after spawning into the carrier landing mission & also continually adjusting them , but the engine always seems to quit. I had to give up for now on the Corsair School campaign carrier qualification mission since the engine doesn't last long enough for me to do 5 landings (not that I could do that many anyway, I'm new to this, but the engine thing makes it doubly hard). Here's a track.  Thanks in advance for any tips.

F4u engine quit.trk 2.17 MB · 0 downloads

After your landing, your oil temperature was already red-lined.  You need to open the oil cooler flaps.  Cowl flaps and cylinder head temperatures are only part of the equation.

When you took off after landing (still red-lined on oil temp), you pushed your throttle fully forward and got up to 57-58 inches MP.  The engine knocking noise was clearly heard, which is the sound of mechanical damage occurring.  Takeoffs from carrier are 54 inches maximum.  I attached a screenshot from the Corsair POH's takeoff checklist.

When you hear that knocking noise, pull your manifold pressure back a tad.

Cheers!

null

[Saxman]

4 hours ago, Rhayvn said:

The question is, is the 5 minutes time limit (It's more like just over 4 minutes from my tests) a total time for that flight, or 5 minutes at a time.  If so, some direction on how long we need to wait to go back into WEP to reset the timer would be nice.  From testing going into and out of WEP MAPs and adding up the time, it's a total of 5 minutes in the short term and the engine loses significant power and will seize if you do not back it off. 

I tried using WEP for 4 minutes and then going to low power cruise for about 10 minutes.  Then back into WEP.  It lasted another 4 minutes and I got the low water light just before the engine losing power.

Hopefully this is just a simplified modeling step because it seems solely tied to MAP and time.  I have not even tested if landing and refueling resets the timer.  If it does not, then it's even more artificial.  But, with the WEP-Cruise-WEP test, it seem like it does slowly reset.

There's 8.5min of water injection. The 5min is the "manufacturer's suggested operating limits or void your warranty." It shouldn't be acting as a time bomb ticking away that your engine is going to blow up. You can push past 5mins and normally be just fine...or maybe you'll throw a rod or burn out a gasket. Then again,you might just get a small oil leak that your crew chief will hunt you down with a monkey wrench for later.

There are SOME engines that had notorious problems with failing due to excessive heat (IE the Wright 3350 use on the B-29 had a tendency to catch on fire) but the R-2800 especially was noteworthy for its ROBUSTNESS. We've all seen this photo, I'm sure:

This P-47 had a cylinder head shot out and still made it home despite losing much of its oil painting the fuselage black.

I wish to god a better system could be found for handling engine temperature issues than "tick tick tick tick tick BOOM." It's been forty years, surely there must be SOME alternative by now.

[Nealius]

I agree, hard limiters are unrealistic AND a game-breaker considering none of the AI are beholden to the same limitations. They get to run at WEP until they run out of fuel with zero consequences while we have a dead engine for going 1" over on MP--on a gauge that's so spastic you can't even tell what MP you're pulling--for 1 second over some hard-coded time limit.

[Hotdognz]

This was a fun WB to fly until this engine update dropped last night

For the first time since I purchased the plane I found it a chore to fly and fight in especially since the AI are not having to use the same rules, it was way ,more fun before to use even if maybe not so realistic, but my question is why is the P47 engine so different as its the same engine the P&W R-2800 Wasp.

I'm back to using the P47 again until the engine becomes more robust in use.

[_Hoss]

I've got a WW Super Taurus, the Afterburner detente on it stops just before the Corsairs throttle breaks the Military Power wire. Before this last update I never needed to break that wire to take off, or execute most of the mission. All three times my engine quit I had never gone into MILPWR. 2400-2300 RPM and 30 to 45 MP... Cowls around 50%, oil and intercooler at 50% (just like the Jugs Neutral). I had heard lots of complaints about taxing but I always had to be careful not to use too much differential breaking or it would turn way to fast. Now it will not turn left at all while trying to taxi on shore, it'll still do donuts turning right. In case your wondering most of my tests were from the boat, just go straight. I put her on the elevator and she'll be a Hangar Bay Queen for a while.

 

[Holbeach]

13 hours ago, Ghostrider 147 said:

Your oil temperature is way over the maximum limits. When flying slow, like when on carrier approaches, make sure to open your oil cooler flaps about 30 to 50%. Your engine blew here because it overheated. Other than that nice landing btw  

Thanks for looking. 

I'll pay more attention to detail and give it some more today.

Update: 30 mins of Carrier circuits including bolters, without any engine probs.

Get those flaps open boys.

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Edited 3 hours ago by Holbeach