SPO15 feedback

[AeriaGloria]

50 minutes ago, Dača said:

Wow, a lot of information to process.

Now the question should be what can SPO detect apart from wingmen radar lock ?

change to automatic mode 

Okay, so the problem is that HPRF is over 200 kHz, and SPO begins to have trouble over 50 kHz in regards to its bins. 
 

This says that MPRF is much below 50 kHz in terms of PRF. How could SPO have a problem with it? 

Edited 7 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[Rhinozherous]

Wow, there is a ton of deep technical info about this topic... But what is the more superficial point of the discussion, for not that tech savvy people? I dont get it what SPO is not able to detect? 

1 - Is there no warning when we are locked by an Fox3 because it is more modern then the MiG29?

2 - Are we not warned when we are locked by blue side SAM? What about red side SAM?

3 - What is Automatic mode? 

Thank you!

[AeriaGloria]

7 minutes ago, Rhinozherous said:

Wow, there is a ton of deep technical info about this topic... But what is the more superficial point of the discussion, for not that tech savvy people? I dont get it what SPO is not able to detect? 

1 - Is there no warning when we are locked by an Fox3 because it is more modern then the MiG29?

2 - Are we not warned when we are locked by blue side SAM? What about red side SAM?

3 - What is Automatic mode? 

Thank you!

1. It will seem like host radar is getting stronger and stronger in lock mode when it appears 

 

2. yes. Red side Sam won’t show in automatic 

3. in ME you can set stock or automatic. Stock is a default Warsaw pact setting. Automatic assumes it is reprogrammed with all enemy threats in mission and told to ignore all friendly radars. It might still mistake friendly radars for enemy though, such as F-16 for F14/15/18. 

[Rhinozherous]

5 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

1. It will seem like host radar is getting stronger and stronger in lock mode when it appears 

 

2. yes. Red side Sam won’t show in automatic 

3. in ME you can set stock or automatic. Stock is a default Warsaw pact setting. Automatic assumes it is reprogrammed with all enemy threats in mission and told to ignore all friendly radars. It might still mistake friendly radars for enemy though, such as F-16 for F14/15/18. 

This clears it up for me! Thank you!

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

change to automatic mode 

Okay, so the problem is that HPRF is over 200 kHz, and SPO begins to have trouble over 50 kHz in regards to its bins. 
 

This says that MPRF is much below 50 kHz in terms of PRF. How could SPO have a problem with it? 

 

Again, the thing here is building a blanking circuit at ANY of these PRF's is trivial with 70's era electronics. So we need to disambiguate  the whole "detection/classification" of signals. From turn the thing on/off real fast (aka the blanker). The SPO-15 was modular. The blanker circuit was modular. Its trivial to build, the issue IMO is how they synched it, if they were doing it really simply using the "1 wire" (come on guys, this is clearly a RF coax cable). Then you use the rising edge of the radar pulse to blank the SPO. This is not elegant but if it has a concomitant delay to synch it, it will prolly work "ok"... 

And honestly the synch part is where it seems to go wrong, which tracks with the "not elegant" coax cable solution. But it "should work" in a perfect (DCS is always perfect when it comes to western electronics) world.

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Harlikwin

[Muchocracker]

The claim being made by the dev is that the synchronization circuit itself can't handle HPRF or CW signals.
 

Quote

As for synchronization with radar, SPO-15 features a synchronization circuit on board 51, but it was designed for older radars such Sapfir-23. The principle of operation is the same as in older SPO-10, the receivers are blocked in rhythm with own radar's pulses. It cannot handle CW or HPRF signals (which trigger CW circuits anyway, followed by them being disabled completely in all channels once HPRF is recognized), so if they are emitted the affected hemisphere is shut down completely

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Muchocracker said:

The claim being made by the dev is that the synchronization circuit itself can't handle HPRF or CW signals.
 

I mean, there is nothing particularly complex about making a blocking signal thats measured in khz in the 1970's. Like I could build one using 70's era components today for like 10 bucks. So that argument doesn't really sound realistic. Its a simple crystal oscillator and divider circuit. 

Maybe they have a circuit from something that isn't a mig29 tho. Since the SPO-15 was modular for many good reasons. The blanking circuits would certainly be modular depending on what platform it was installed on. If you are using a mig23 blanker on a mig29 I'm sure that doesn't work. But its pretty far from "rokit/elektronik" science to make a blanker circuit work at the desired PRF, be it LPRF/MPRF/HPRF from an electronics standpoint. There might some additional caveats synching it which might explain the various "abberant" behaviors tho. Also to address the "1 cable" thing that was brought up, thats like a non issue. Its a coax cable sending a timed signal, like ever other radio cable on earth, nothing "primitive or advanced about it"

 

[Muchocracker]

Okay, so it should be easy to present evidence to prove that the blanking circuit installed on SPO-15LM's for 9.21A mig-29's can handle the HPRF waveform then 

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Muchocracker said:

Okay, so it should be easy to present evidence to prove that the blanking circuit installed on SPO-15LM's for 9.21A mig-29's can handle the HPRF waveform then 

I feel like we basically need color video by this point lol, or a bunch of SME’s