any suggestion to air refuel the 18 in vr ?

[dave76]

 guess it has been already asked somewher and forgive me if i ask here again 

 refueling the hornet in vr i connect with the  drogue but i cannot stay connected more than a few seconds although i work stick and throttle .....any suggestion to stay connected in vr till i her refuel complete?   (apart practice and practice of course  )

Edited October 8 by dave76

[Tholozor]

Relax your grip on the stick, use light pressure to make adjustments. Consider adding a curve to your pitch and roll axes, or add more if you already have some. Don't chase the basket, else you risk pilot-induced oscillations.

Formation flying in general is always a bonus for AAR.

[Dragon1-1]

AAR is formation flying. Once you understand that, it's much easier to do. Curves are unnecessary, or even harmful. Find yourself a visual reference that isn't the basket (aiming with the gun cross usually works OK) and use it to judge where you are in the envelope.

Also, start with the KC-130. If you try to do it with the S-3D, you're in for a frustrating time, that's the hardest tanker to refuel from. Once you can do it with the Herc, move on to the S-3D.

[MAXsenna]

I understand why people are using curves, but personally I don't use them as they give me bad habits. What kind of hardware controls do you have? An extention is way better than curves. And as already been suggested. Learn formation flying with a very light grip on the stick, and work that throttle ALL the time. Look at the tanker at 45°, and you will have a better perception of if you advance or retreat. Don't focus on the basket, (at least until you have mastered the art).
If you have the Super Carrier, forget the Hornet for now. Jump in the Su-33. It's one of the simplest modules to AAR in. Lock up the tanker in IRST, and the HUD will tell you if you advance or retreat. Same with the tanker POD. The lights will tell you.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[buur]

For me AAR is easier when I override the gain. Than I have more sensitivity.

Edited October 9 by buur

[speed-of-heat]

7 hours ago, dave76 said:

 guess it has been already asked somewher and forgive me if i ask here again 

 refueling the hornet in vr i connect with the  drogue but i cannot stay connected more than a few seconds although i work stick and throttle .....any suggestion to stay connected in vr till i her refuel complete?   (apart practice and practice of course  )

And lots of practice… vr makes it easier… my personal recommendations…. 
1 … only try and control one plane of motion at a time… I’d start with speed

2 … practice formation flying first

3… start with a c130 … the s3 is much harder

4… take your feet off the rudder

5… hum a tune to yourself to help take your mind off the task … sounds silly works for me

6… look at the lights… not the basket…

7… practice practice practice… try building a refuelling mission and do it before and after every other sortie 

[jaylw314]

Curves are fine, unless you have a massive stick extension, or plan to invest in a force feedback stick and fly warbirds/helicopters.

The only tips I'd add --

- every move requires an almost immediate "unmove," especially with pitch and throttle.  If you're low, pitch up a bit, then immediately pitch back down.  If you're forwards, back off the throttle a bit, then immediately push it back up.  Never hold an input for longer than a moment. 

- decide at the beginning whether you want to use rudder or roll for lateral control.  Apparently, in the Hornet, the official recommendation is to use the rudder, but I've always used roll and just can't do it with rudder.

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Curves are fine, unless you have a massive stick extension, or plan to invest in a force feedback stick and fly warbirds/helicopters.

The only tips I'd add --

- every move requires an almost immediate "unmove," especially with pitch and throttle.  If you're low, pitch up a bit, then immediately pitch back down.  If you're forwards, back off the throttle a bit, then immediately push it back up.  Never hold an input for longer than a moment. 

just to add to this... small smooth movements ... always

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

- decide at the beginning whether you want to use rudder or roll for lateral control.  Apparently, in the Hornet, the official recommendation is to use the rudder, but I've always used roll and just can't do it with rudder.

i think the theory is back to the one plane of movement.. an stick for vertical and rudders for horizontal makes a lot of sense.. but i have never been able to make this work for me either!

[OmasRachE]

In my opinion, curves are not evil at all but they are allways just a fix and have their problems. When I started with an X52 Hotas I had no choise since it was unmanageble without curves. But if you have something like a warthog or even better you should try an extension since this is far better. 

When attempting to plug get in proper formation first. Make sure you match the tanker speed and try not to close in. After maintaining a formation behind the basket line up with the basket. After you are lined up try to close in with very little differential speed. Don´t make corrections unless you are realy drifting away. Try to slide in without any last minute corrections, since that causes PIO for sure. Just let go a little bit and try again. Try to relax and let lose your deathgrip from time to time. When making corrections try to use half the input you want to use. The moment you feel a reaction to your input you can start to counter it again. E. g. when your drifting aft, you apply a little tip of power. When you start closing in again you have to throttle down allready, since you would accelerate even more if you wouldn´t. 

When connected move a little bit further, that gives you space to react. Look at your canopy frame and try to lock that picture you see with the tankers engine and wing. Don´t look at the basket at all. Don´t look at your fuel state, it ends automatically once your tanks are full. You will be able to do so, once you got used to it.

First try to plug when the tanker flies straight. You likely will lose it in the turn. After you maintain the plug thoughout the turn you can go ahead and try to plug in the turn.

Try to refuel before or after every flight or even both and you will get used to it soon.  

 

Edited October 9 by OmasRachE

[dave76]

....ok....i defintely refuel the f16 from a long time now without any problem so flying formation is mastered from long time now , instaed  here i am able to connect for example only to the left drogue, right one is more difficult even straight or while turning ( do you guys experience the same?)

i can  also do that while tkr is turning  but the problem is i stay connected only few seconds.

yeah probably i look to much at the basket, that can be one issue for sure

 @OmasRachE i will check the curves aniway and cancel if i have , i have to look.....

@buur i try also to switch off FLCS GAINS

 

10 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I understand why people are using curves, but personally I don't use them as they give me bad habits. What kind of hardware controls do you have? An extention is way better than curves. And as already been suggested. Learn formation flying with a very light grip on the stick, and work that throttle ALL the time. Look at the tanker at 45°, and you will have a better perception of if you advance or retreat. Don't focus on the basket, (at least until you have mastered the art).
If you have the Super Carrier, forget the Hornet for now. Jump in the Su-33. It's one of the simplest modules to AAR in. Lock up the tanker in IRST, and the HUD will tell you if you advance or retreat. Same with the tanker POD. The lights will tell you.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

 @MAXsenna i use the warthog.....

Edited October 9 by dave76

[razo+r]

You should upload a short track as a demonstration so people can give you more specific inputs to help you.

[dave76]

@razo+r i will as soon as i try again

[OmasRachE]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb dave76:

....ok....i defintely refuel the f16 from a long time now without any problem so flying formation is mastered from long time now

Yeah, it´s a different game since there is no boom operator plugin in for you. Also you have to find some other fixpoints that give you feedback on your movement. The lights under the belly are a nice thing. I don´t find the basket particularly harder than the boom, but its different and I had my challenges coming from the hornet to the viper and phantom. You have to avoid that hard focus on the basket. Sure you have to hit it but first you should feel comfortable and relaxed and then slide it in carefully. Just like men should do anyway.

Edited October 9 by OmasRachE

[speed-of-heat]

The right drogue is marginally harder, because the reference points change, but if it is a big issue, if you are looking at the basket… because you loose all your reference points…as you are looking off to the right not at the lights or the tanker

[rob10]

Agree with speed-of-heat, right basket is weirdly hard (likely because we don't use it as much so our references are more for the left basket).  You also will need to speed up slightly in a turn on the right since you're travelling slightly farther than the tanker in the turn, whereas on the inside you'll be going slightly less far).  I'm not a fan of curves, but that is personal preference.  With a good stick (and without extensions) you get very precise control without curves and you just need to learn how to only make tiny movements of the stick.

I think you've realized, but in DCS if there is only 1 plane fueling (or whoever clears contact 1st if there's more than one) will ALWAYS have to take the left basket (even if the right basket is out), and if you try to take the right your probe will just pass through it.

[dave76]

@rob10 yes right wing being external is moving faster and yes the probe pass through it i noticed

also in vr i cannot see the +10 pitch line on the hud....

Edited October 9 by dave76

[jaylw314]

18 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

just to add to this... small smooth movements ... always

i think the theory is back to the one plane of movement.. an stick for vertical and rudders for horizontal makes a lot of sense.. but i have never been able to make this work for me either!

The justification was that the probe is above the aircraft centerline, so rolling will move it horizontally and vertically.  I'm not sure I buy that argument, because you're only rolling at most 5-10 degrees.  nobody is rolling 45 degrees during refueling 

[speed-of-heat]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

 nobody is rolling 45 degrees during refueling 

Oh sweet summer child

[OmasRachE]

One of our squadron mates likes to refuel the Hornet inverted.

[dave76]

3 hours ago, OmasRachE said:

One of our squadron mates likes to refuel the Hornet inverted.

[OmasRachE]

I just found a screenshot.

[Viral-51st-Vfw]

Oh sweet summer child

This amazing documentary agrees

Oops edit lost the link

I half expected it to end with "return precontact"

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

On 10/10/2025 at 4:12 AM, OmasRachE said:

I just found a screenshot.

[dave76]

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

There's no shame in struggling to refuel the F-18: I find it to be the hardest aircraft in DCS to refuel, by a large margin. I mostly struggle with:
- the constant left aileron needed while closing in from pre-contact to actual contact, then that force suddenly disappears as if someone flipped a switch;
- the huge deadzone in the FCS (when I make small physical corrections the in-game stick moves as well yet the aircraft itself doesn't move a bit): this leads to constant over-corrections and PIO.