Saitek X65F preview

[*Rage*]

Previewed!

 

http://tv.hexus.net/show/2010/01/CES_2010_-_Introducing_the_X65F_HOTAS_from_Saitek/

[Prophet4no1]

I'm not sure about the force sensing. Should be ok for fixed wing, but will be funky for choppers.

[Made.In.China.00]

I kind of like force sensing, but "does not move at all"... Not sure.

Didn't someone mentioned that it actually moves 8mm?

[EtherealN]

Actually, Prophet, if I remember correctly the force sensing thing was first being developed in the late 70's specifically for helicopters.

 

Thanks for the link, Rage.

[Cyb0rg]

I've a throttle from X52 and the stick is the extreme 3d pro.

Having in mind the next flight simulators to be released, most probably this will be my next sim controller. No need for rudder pedals (YES!).

Force sensing is a must, IMO.

 

A little expensive though.. :pilotfly:

[rapid]

thanks.

[Steve Davies]

£299 for a stick that doesn't move, has no pedals, and that does not have a configuration that (inspite of what the reviewer thinks) is modelled on the F-16 HOTAS in any recognisable form? Good luck with that.

 

Having seen first hand what a waste of money the Logitech G940 is with its 'sloppy' centre, detent-less trims and dials, useless mini stick, and apparently recalcitrant attitude towards actually helping developers fix the sloppy centre issue; and having now watched this review, I have to ask whether these companies ever use focus groups or solicit feedback from the people who actually have that kind of capital to blow. I can only imagine that none of them expected to be in competition with TM again.

 

Personally, I am looking forward to selling the G940 and buying the TM Warthog.

[Revvin]

Its says something for Saitek that they released an expensive HOTAS to compete with Thrustmaster and CH Products and made it even more of a niche product by making it a force sensing stick. I don't know what F16's the reviewer has seen, maybe he thought Darth Vaders ship in Star Wars was an F16? We certainly have a lot of toys to choose from though.

[SUBS17]

1st thing is that its not the first ever force sensing stick the FSSB mod for the cougar by Realsimulator is the 1st such Hotas with that. The X65F looks cool but I think its probably closer to an F22 Hotas than F-16 although if the stick is similar its good because you can map the same controls as the TMS,DMS etc as the real F-16 for Falcon. It certainly would be a good hotas for FBW but I wonder how it would work with helicopters.

[Chibawang]

Actually, Prophet, if I remember correctly the force sensing thing was first being developed in the late 70's specifically for helicopters.

 

So... ya.

[Groove]

I might be able to write some kind of review for you guys as soon as i get the hardware.

[Tbag]

I might be able to write some kind of review for you guys as soon as i get the hardware.

 

:thumbup:

[*Rage*]

^^ cool. Do you review for a website? Any idea when?

[Poncho]

Preview:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_158a.html

 

Cheers

[deadsmell]

One thing I did notice in that little bit of demonstration:

 

During the demonstration the demonstrator applied some "left" input on the stick initiating a left bank. At that time the demonstrator removed his hand from the stick, to move over and turn his focus to the throttle. However the aircraft continued to roll left as if the the user was still applying that left input on the stick.

 

Maybe its just me, but It seems like that would be very problematic for the user. If the input doesnt return to center when not sensing any applied force, then that must mean that the user has to return the stick to center manually, and given that the stick doesnt physically move, the user would be forced to play some sort of guessing game when returning the stick to center. I can already see the complaints from virtual pilots pouring in on how they are fighting the stick constantly on those approaches with heavy crosswinds and such, simply because they are constantly guessing what position their damn flight controls are in, lol.

 

Hope that makes sense. I could be wrong, just thought id bring it up and see what you guys thought.

 

I would also imagine there could potentially be a substantial delay involved in using the system.

[Krippz]

One thing I did notice in that little bit of demonstration:

 

During the demonstration the demonstrator applied some "left" input on the stick initiating a left bank. At that time the demonstrator removed his hand from the stick, to move over and turn his focus to the throttle. However the aircraft continued to roll left as if the the user was still applying that left input on the stick.

 

Maybe its just me, but It seems like that would be very problematic for the user. If the input doesnt return to center when not sensing any applied force, then that must mean that the user has to return the stick to center manually, and given that the stick doesnt physically move, the user would be forced to play some sort of guessing game when returning the stick to center. I can already see the complaints from virtual pilots pouring in on how they are fighting the stick constantly on those approaches with heavy crosswinds and such, simply because they are constantly guessing what position their damn flight controls are in, lol.

 

Hope that makes sense. I could be wrong, just thought id bring it up and see what you guys thought.

 

I would also imagine there could potentially be a substantial delay involved in using the system.

 

If the aircraft was already rolling to the left a user would have to apply opposite roll to counter the roll. So it doesn't look like a stick issue to me.

[Steve Davies]

If the aircraft was already rolling to the left a user would have to apply opposite roll to counter the roll. So it doesn't look like a stick issue to me.

 

Once the stick is released the roll should stop.

 

What aircraft do you know where you have to apply opposite aileron to stop the roll moment? I don't know any.

 

The only time you would apply opposite aileron is tp perform a crisp hesitation roll or similar.

[sobek]

What aircraft do you know where you have to apply opposite aileron to stop the roll moment? I don't know any.

 

The space shuttle ;)

[Scarecrow]

Having seen first hand what a waste of money the Logitech G940 is with its 'sloppy' centre, detent-less trims and dials, useless mini stick, and apparently recalcitrant attitude towards actually helping developers fix the sloppy centre issue;

 

Sorry to change the subject but are you saying that you have knowledge that ED have approached Logitech about updating FFB effects in their products and Logitech have been unwilling to provide support to enable this?

I'm one of the poor souls who also bought the G940.

[Feuerfalke]

The space shuttle ;)

 

:D

 

 

:thumbup:

[Steve Davies]

The space shuttle ;)

 

Nice try! But I said "apply opposite aileron" - that won't work in space :joystick:

[Steve Davies]

Sorry to change the subject but are you saying that you have knowledge that ED have approached Logitech about updating FFB effects in their products and Logitech have been unwilling to provide support to enable this?

I'm one of the poor souls who also bought the G940.

 

Scarecrow

 

I don't know about FFB effects. My comments were made specifically in relation to addressing the sloppy centre issue (a software function, apparently).

 

Insofar as that goes, I don't work for ED and am not authorised to speak for them. So, for official comment you will need to ask ED directly about their relationship with CH and the level of support they have had.

 

Steve

[Scarecrow]

Thanks for clarifying that Steve, I just thought from the way you phrased it that you had insider knowledge that ED had sought to improve the functioning of the centre spring effect in FC/DCS but Logitech wasn't answering the phone.

[Steve Davies]

I just thought from the way you phrased it that you had insider knowledge that ED had sought to improve the functioning of the centre spring effect in FC/DCS but Logitech wasn't answering the phone.

 

:music_whistling:

[sobek]

:music_whistling:

Hehe, the burden of knowledge :)

 

Nice try! But I said "apply opposite aileron" - that won't work in space :joystick:

 

Ballbuster. :D

Edited January 19, 2010 by sobek