What HOTAS to get?

[mikek1357]

Hi folks,

 

Right now I have a Saitek X-45, which still works fine, but is slowly beginning to wear.

 

So i'm looking for a new HOTAS. But what to get?

 

Saitek X65F, Logitechs G940, Thrustmaster Cougar, Saitek X52pro?

 

What are pro's and con's of the different HOTAS?

 

Thanks!!

[Stretch]

I've owned the Cougar and the X65F now, and honestly if you had to ask me, I couldn't pick between them.

 

Cougar Pros: Sturdy construction (had it for 3 years and its good as new) excellent ergonomics (all the buttons are right where you need them to be), excellent software (Foxy is the best).

 

Cougar Cons: No force-sensing (flops around on its base), fewer buttons/switches (though that never bothered me), throttle has loud detents and poor friction.

 

X65F Pros: Force-sensing! It's excellent. Dual-axis throttle. Feels sturdy but will it last as long as my Cougar?

 

X65F Cons: Bad programming, no remappable axes, single-stage trigger, bad ergonomics (have to move your hand around a lot -- honestly nothing compares to the F-16 stick for ergonomics).

 

Personally I think the best possible HOTAS is a Cougar + FSSB mod + Throttle friction mod, but that's gonna be really pricey.

 

Between Cougar and X65F, I'd say it's a draw. Go with the pros you need and the cons you don't mind.

[159th_Viper]

Wait for the new HOTAS Warthog - release 'soon-ish' and will be the best on the market if looking for an all-round Flight-Stick.

[ddahlstrom]

I own the G940 and don't quite fully recommend it at the moment due to flaky software/firmware. On the other hand, it might be worth waiting to hear people's reports on the next update in which Logitech is promising to address some of its largest issues. If it turns out that they can deliver, this could be the fantastic controller it was meant to be.

[coder1024]

Seems like the new A-10 HOTAS from Thrustmaster would really be worth looking at. Obviously for the pairing with the new DCS A-10 module, but beyond that just as a really high quality HOTAS.

 

I'm also on an X-45 and have considered upgrading for awhile now. With the new A-10 HOTAS on the way I'm considering it :) Not sure yet.

[Slayer]

I'd hold out until the A-10 stick releases and then see what reviewers think of it. No matter which way you go it's a lot of money and joysticks tend to get replaced a lot less than any other compnent so it's worth it to evaluate all your choices.

[digitaljjd]

Review of the major HOTAS players...

 

Here's some pretty helpful info as well, for others who find this thread with the same question.

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

[Feuerfalke]

I can only support the posts above: Wait for the TM Warthog-HOTAS.

 

Some statements say the release is pretty close (June?) and it seems very promising, not only because it would be perfect for DCS-A10C, but also because it uses modern technology and even offers some additional switches on the base of the throttle.

 

Who knows, maybe CH Products plans to release their military A-10C stick to the public as well?

 

Lot's of arguments to wait with your investment.

[sobek]

The problem with the TM Hotas is you need an additional rudder unit that costs you an additional 80€. If the Warthog Hotas price will be the same as the old cougar, that would be fine but i expect it to cost a lot more.

[Bearitall]

The problem with the TM Hotas is you need an additional rudder unit that costs you an additional 80€. If the Warthog Hotas price will be the same as the old cougar, that would be fine but i expect it to cost a lot more.

 

 

A little leak here in our soon to be 1 vs 1 Gunz Only Tournament upcoming we will be offering a A-10 WartHog Hotas as a prize package..

 

So start your Gunz Only practicing....:pilotfly:

[sobek]

A little leak here in our soon to be 1 vs 1 Gunz Only Tournament upcoming we will be offering a A-10 WartHog Hotas as a prize package..

 

So start your Gunz Only practicing....:pilotfly:

 

Oh great, i don't have any stick ATM because my G940 failed on me :mad:;)

 

Gonna have to practice flying with the mouse then :D

[coder1024]

Another note, I've heard multiple complaints about the X-52 twist rudder being really annoying. After hearing that I think I'd avoid anything with a twist rudder myself as I have pedals.

 

Granted, my X-45 rudder isn't great either, but I can program in some curvature and at least its not on the flight stick.

[roob]

My X-52 stick failed just shortly after the warranty expired... :(

Throttle still works fine though, but it's almost no good without mode-select/pinkie-switch.

And yes, the twist was a little bit annoying, aswell as the buttons on top of the stick (hard to reach).

 

I've been waiting for the TM for like 6 months now :(

 

 

Edit: Also, the slider on the rudder is... bouncy. You have to struggle to get it fixed (I use it for zoom and the view is all back and forth).

 

Ah, might try and get it fixed then, if the TM isn't coming soon...

Edited May 4, 2010 by roob

[Feuerfalke]

A failed stick in the X52 mostly comes from cheap cables and connectors on the throttle and the connection cable. I got my stick from ebay with the same problem. Got it fixed in 5 minutes by checking and fixing the cables.

 

I agree that the twist-rudder is not the best solution. IMHO the rudder-rocker on the X45 was a much better solution.

[Avilator]

Also, the twist on the X52 has a lock to prevent it from moving if you do have pedals.

[coder1024]

Also, the twist on the X52 has a lock to prevent it from moving if you do have pedals.

from those I've talked to that use it, the lock isn't very good. Even when locked you still get some movement or something. I can't recall the specific issue, but the lock didn't seem to help remove the problem IIRC.

[Feuerfalke]

That's correct. The lock has a certain play on both, the x52 and x52pro (they have the same mechanism).

 

That is more a problem of comfort than of actual input, though. The rudder is quite sluggish around the center anyway, so the movement is usually not detected as rudder input. Besides that, you can simply remove the twist-axis from rudder mapping to be 100% sure.

 

Nevertheless, the x52 is a good quality product for the price.

[Ramstein]

from those I've talked to that use it, the lock isn't very good. Even when locked you still get some movement or something. I can't recall the specific issue, but the lock didn't seem to help remove the problem IIRC.

 

re: Saitek X52 Pro twist rudder 'Lockout' :

 

yes, it moves a tiny amount, but I also go into the Windows (Control Panel) calibration, game controller, deadzone 'Z Rotation' , and put in a dead zone for that axis, that way even that tiny amount will not show up in game..

:joystick:

[coder1024]

yes, there are workarounds, I'm just saying if I was buying a stick today, I think I'd have second thoughts about anything with a twist rudder. Its not something I would have thought of before; since I have an X-45 haven't experienced it. Its just sounds like a nuisance. Unless you have no pedals and actually want to use a twist rudder of course :)

[Lava]

I think the G940 works just fine for FC2. I haven't run into any problems whatsoever with it in FC2, and the BS problems are fairly minimal. I can't think of any serious problems in BS, trimming just takes getting used to. Just thought I'd try to clear that up. Personally, if I was joystick-less, I'd wait for the A-10C stick's reviews before making up my mind!

 

(edit) The extra buttons on the G940 throttle base are extremely useful. Whichever stick you pick - make sure it has lots of buttons!

[sobek]

I think the G940 works just fine for FC2. I haven't run into any problems whatsoever with it in FC2, and the BS problems are fairly minimal. I can't think of any serious problems in BS, trimming just takes getting used to.

 

Personally, i think just the opposite. The trimming in BS does not work correctly. When you press the trim button, the stick should go limb and loose all centering force which it does not. And don't get me started on center slop. The dead man switch is also dead wrong.

[coder1024]

The BS trim is setting the software center, you're expected to release the stick back to center and the stick center is now seen as the new trimmed center. At that point, you would want the force to still be centered about the physical center.

 

Its an approximation, but I think a perfectly reasonable one. I don't think it would be feasible to make it any closer to the real thing.

[Lava]

Personally, i think just the opposite. The trimming in BS does not work correctly. When you press the trim button, the stick should go limb and loose all centering force which it does not. And don't get me started on center slop. The dead man switch is also dead wrong.

 

If the stick went limp when you pressed the trim button, that would throw the stick all over the place as the forces suddenly changed. You would NOT like this happening. It's much better to not have the stick suddenly change FF levels while trying to fly :) You need the input levels to be stable.

 

The dead man switch is annoying, but just put a piece of tape over it. I'm a bit curious if other FFB systems have deadman switches, but it's certainly not a deal breaker.

 

(edit) I wish the stick was a bit tighter in the center, however it's still very -precise- there, just not always tight enough to go hands-free without trimming. It hasn't bothered me to the point where I set up a deadzone.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Lava

[sobek]

If the stick went limp when you pressed the trim button, that would throw the stick all over the place as the forces suddenly changed. You would NOT like this happening. It's much better to not have the stick suddenly change FF levels while trying to fly :) You need the input levels to be stable.

 

Yes i want that to happen, because i know how to trim ;) I also know that the MSFFB2 works this way and it does so brilliantly.

 

Apart from that, how does the stick not suddenly change FF levels now? It suddenly quirks when you release the trim button. With the limpness, you just press, move, release. The way you advertise, you always oversteer because it jumps when you release. The real thing works this way as well.

[Jagged]

how bout products from ch...