Ground target visibility

[Vecko]

I notice your unhidden tendency to compromise my PC Mr.Viper (just be carefull, i am very sensitive on that:D).

I have proposition for you...I will send you small track file and you will take screenshot in one moment(triger will say you when).Then you can post it in this thread so we can examin and make some comparison.Fair enough?:)

 

Oh yes, you have some units on last pic? ...Or you just wanna make me jealous?;)

[MoGas]

So, conclusion of this topic is to use 120% of zoom and enjoy in life...

You know Viper, i could use max zoom on my screanshots and targets would be visible but I did not want to do that.I never use 100% of zooming,my zoom view axile is on max 80%.

 

If you find realistic that almost nobody from this forum can't count remaining live units in situation from picture ,with used amount of zoom(about 70-80%) ,i realy don't know what to say anymore...But i am sure in one thing,sooner or later most of A-10 and Su-25 lockon pilots(not you Mogas, there is not much to see on 45000 feet) will remember this thread and they will ask them self, what is realism .

 

 

 

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/misc/image_popup/popup.php?strAdresse=/download_archiv/photos/panzer/images/dsc_4212.jpg&intSeite=1920&intHoehe=1200&intMaxSeite=1920&intMaxHoehe=1170&blnFremd=1

 

 

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/misc/image_popup/popup.php?strAdresse=/download_archiv/photos/panzer/images/dsc_1599.jpg&intSeite=1920&intHoehe=1200&intMaxSeite=1920&intMaxHoehe=1170&blnFremd=1

 

You will not see them, from far out, and this tanks are not even with fully camo. If they are not moveing and not kicking up dust then good luck.

 

cheers (I see MiGy's from 45.000ft+ ;))

[winz]

With all the mud trails around you got far better clue where to look for them. The high contrast between the mud trails and the green grass is clearly visible from reasonable distance.

[Insanatrix]

The scale of everything is fine. Face it a monitor cannot replicate the abilities of the human eye therefor you can't make a direct comparison. I consider zooming in to be the same as the eye focusing on something. To each his own.

 

The only problem I have stated is that the model LOD's pop in way too close. If they went to hi poly LOD's farther out it would probably be harder and easier to spot targets in some regards. Camo doesn't make a bit of difference if its not displayed until 2km in.

 

Also using proper tactics and scouting the target area is a big role as well as proper FAC. There are some things in this sim that we take for granted. Eyeballing a target 15km out is really friggin hard, why do you think they have systems like Shkvals and FLIR?

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

I have taken this picture near my hometown from about 700m... can you distinguish a bush from a tractor in the distance? I can´t

[JLZ]

^ ^

That's really bad picture :(

[winz]

That's a very blured photo. My personal experience is that you can spot tractor from much greater distance. Last summer hiking I had no problem spot one working on a field from about 7km without problem. But it was a red tractor working on a yellow background...I don't expect regular ground targets having so hight cotrast with their surroundings.

[GGTharos]

If a tank - or other - camouflaged vehicle were to take the minimum precautions for hiding, ie. parking in a treeline etc ... forget it, at least from what I can tell it would be next to impossible to see directly. You'd have to use secondary cues (tread tracks, information from boots on ground, etc) to spot it. Such things are absent from flight sims though, probably for obvious reasons.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, I have actually overflown prepared mobilization stocks and did not realize that I was flying over ~100 artillery pieces. Granted, I wasn't looking for them, but with that many of them... You'd think you'd easily spot them from 700m AGL. Think again.

 

I've also seen pictures of Stockholm class corvettes taken from just a couple hundred meters, where it's only having it pointed out to you that lets you spot that that structure is a camo net and not a rocky outcrop on the shoreline. ;)

[DiBarkis]

OK realism freks ,how many live units do you see on this pic? :)

Note that screnshot is taken with 100% of quality...But don't look too long , you know, it is not realistic...:smilewink:

 

There is one immediately to the right of the right 5-degree bank tick mark

[HiJack]

Find it too hard? Tune and use labels, you are not forced to use the red/blue all giving info labels. I've tuned my labels to only display a '.' symbol in dark green/grey color (sometimes I spot the targets model sooner than the label), got them off most of the time, and only turne them on when I'm really frustrated :)

 

How do you get the labels to become just a "." ??? :huh:

And in dark green/grey! Is that easy to spot?

Can this be done on a server config?

 

(HJ)

[winz]

You can edit the Labels.lua in /Config/View/

There you can set what information should be displayed at what distance, and also set the color for each side labels.

If they are easy to spot? That really depends on where is the unit. If its a plane hanging over the horizont, then its pretty easy to spot. But gets harder with terrain in background. I selected the color when I was playing the A10 campaign, set in autum/winter with mostly dark ground textures. I can imagine it's not the perfect color for a sunny summer day ;) Upclose I had more problems spoting the label, than the actual target.

Can this be done on a server config?

I really doubt this. But I guess the labels configuration can be added to the mission file, so it's forced.

[blackgruya]

System settings:

 

Default install + Patch 1.2.1.

Mods - Squad Skin and 3GO Flanker/A-10/F-15 new models.

 

 

12 x AA (4x Edge Detect)

16 x AF

 

Units: Ural 375/BMP-2

 

 

6 Nautical Miles:

 

 

 

 

5 Nautical Miles:

 

 

 

 

3 Nautical Miles:

 

 

 

 

1.5 Nautical Miles:

 

 

 

 

Danger Close:

 

 

 

 

 

As said - Don't go Blaming LockOn 2.0 :)

 

 

I just want to ask what is the next picture in this row, to kiss the truck? or maybe to wave to BMP nearby? :) I adore ED reality. Is it really for pilot to kiss the hud glass like this, each time he wants to see something? :)

[JimMack]

In the real world to spot a ground target depends on many variables - background (desert v fields/woods- moving/still, position against vertical objects, cammo or not, speed of aircraft, etc.

An input from an experienced recon pilot "for the average pilot (who has been trained in recognition – sliding scale here also) spotting a potential target would be in the region of 1000-1500ft slant range. To identify type you would probably have to overfly or receive info from other sources (JTAC etc) "

Also remember, the resolution of a monitor is such that it is similar to a person who is seriously visually impaired when looking at the real world.

The best miliary displays have a visual acuity of 20/40.

Edited June 1, 2010 by JimMack

[blackgruya]

GG just ruined and erased nice reply. My point was decoys were visible and were hit many many times. So I have a question for him as always. GG explain to community how we can see tree on SU 25 from miles away, and not a tank near the same tree. I cant wait for answer. Have a nice day

[GGTharos]

... how you can see tree on Su-25 from miles away?

[EtherealN]

No, actually, he didn't. I did. ;)

 

We do not discuss politics at all on this forum, please remember that so we can avoid derails. :)

 

As for trees - you can make up several trees from miles away, in reality and in the sim. This is called a forest. Individual trees... not so easy, again both in sim and reality.

[Vecko]

... how you can see tree on Su-25 from miles away?

 

On skhval GG...

[RvEFuSiOn]

I have to agree with the guys... the ground vehicle visibility is not right in FC2.... I'm not sure how many Models ED uses for various distances... this would be interesting to find out... and also the amount of LOD per vehicle.

Currently as it stands the ground pounders have a very tough time looking for targets specially when on a S&D type of mission.

As far as spotting a vehicle is concerned.... here is a practical example...

If you live in a very high apartment building "like i do" look and see how far out you can see cars and all types of vehicles... and then realize that these vehicles are half or even quarter the size of military vehicles used in FC2... You will then come to your own conclusions... For this sort of test or understanding you only need to use your own "eyes" and you will get the answer very clearly. You can debate about this till the cows come home... But your own eyes don't lie...

What some don't realize is that the Sim doesn't fully compensate for the high resolution eye site that we have and this is where the problem i think comes from.... Maybe investigation in to this matter would be a good idea

 

Edit: here is a good article on the capabilities of the Human eye

 

http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

 

Peace

Edited June 1, 2010 by =RvE=FuSiOn

[GGTharos]

As far as spotting a vehicle is concerned.... here is a practical example...

If you live in a very high apartment building "like i do" look and see how far out you can see cars and all types of vehicles... and then realize that these vehicles are half or even quarter the size of military vehicles used in FC2... You will then come to your own conclusions... For this sort of test or understanding you only need to use your own "eyes" and you will get the answer very clearly. You can debate about this till the cows come home... But your own eyes don't lie...

 

We're not looking for colorful cars on contrasting pavement AND ED listened to RL attack PILOTS when setting up those distances.

[RvEFuSiOn]

I'm fully aware of that we aren't looking at colorful cars... and there is no reason for you to be condescending about it.... however you seem to forget we are looking at objects through a computer screen.... It doesn't matter if ED spoke to RL pilots... my eyes don't lie... I assume you were glasses.

[GGTharos]

RL pilots don't lie either :)

[RIPTIDE]

RL pilots don't lie either :)

Sure they don't... ;)

[SFJackBauer]

Problem is:

 

1) 99% of the missions we play, units are immobile.

 

2) 99% of the missions we play, units are not in a road.

 

3) 99% of the missions we play, are in Summer, where green vehicles mix up pretty well with green foliage.

 

Now, a green tank parked in the middle of a green patch of land would not be easily distinguishable while flying 5000 feet at 500km/h (given my experience of flying as passenger on airliners and small planes).

[Frederf]

RL pilots don't lie either :)

 

Except to their girlfriends and maybe their crew chief?