HitchHikingFlatlander Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 ^^LOL Better yet how much A/A combat thats taken place in the last 30yrs that wasn't practically a one sided fist fight. Most of that A/A combat was poorly matched! Not all cases but I'd guess most. http://dcs-mercenaries.com/ USA Squad
GGTharos Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 No, actually, the minority opinion is mine; I am almost exclusively interested in A2A. I understand the appeal of an a/a sim, I know I get the desire to do a little dogfighting whenever I come across topgun on tv. But for me personally I like the emphasis on the ground and pound. Realistically speaking isn’t that essentially what air combat is in the 21st century? I mean how many a/a engagements have taken place in the last 30 years post-Vietnam? Just my opinion, I know it probably isn’t shared among very many. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
shu77 Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Oh, you'll get your chance in some way or another ... ;) Theres a loaded comment if ever I saw one. Of course you realise the second you give people the ability to drive a Tank there will be a subset that start complaining about play-balance for that tank... I wanted to be a tank driver up until about 1991 when I saw how quickly the iraqi tanks were pwned by the strike eagles and the A-10's. The Blacksharks have a hard enough time getting around on-line now, and I remember a couple months ago doing some comics about 100 pages into a flame war why the 120 was a better product than the 27ER and that modelling it realistically wasnt a bad thing. And lets not get started on the 100 pages of fun on why Yoda's little data link app was a bad idea.... Dont get me wrong I think the RTS approach would be an awesome idea ad would move the genre forward, but can you imagine spawning onto the 104th as a T-72 and trying to do anything useful.... :) Armour exists in this context to give the good guys something to shoot at.... :D Hornet, Super Carrier, Warthog & (II), Mustang, Spitfire, Albatross, Sabre, Combined Arms, FC3, Nevada, Gulf, Normandy, Syria AH-6J i9 10900K @ 5.0GHz, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, Cooler Master ML120L, Gigabyte RTX3080 OC Gaming 10Gb, 64GB RAM, Reverb G2 @ 2480x2428, TM Warthog, Saitek pedals & throttle, DIY collective, TrackIR4, Cougar MFDs, vx3276-2k Combat Wombat's Airfield & Enroute Maps and Planning Tools
GGTharos Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Armour exists to take over enemy airfields, at least in FC2 ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RIPTIDE Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 Just gimme a god dammit Smerch, And I'll LEVEL your bases... one salvo at a time. :D And I'll even make it look pretty. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 All your Smerch are belong to our hogs. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Avilator Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 All your Smerch are belong to our hogs. ;) :megalol: I agree! But what if he can deploy zigs for great justice? Fight's on!:joystick: I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
GGTharos Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 For that, there will be another DCS module! :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Avilator Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 :D I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
Grimes Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 The ground combat component of the game needs a major upgrade. Of all of the AI in the game I'd say they are the worst. As long as they do strike aircraft they have a dedicated reason to give the ground AI more intelligence. I doubt we would see an insane improvement for ground AI in a F-15C DCS game, but in a A-10 or AH-64 the odds would be much better. Thats not to say the Aircraft AI is much better, but in the overall scheme of things I'd rather see the game be perfected in one area before moving to the next. The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
Mugenjin Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Where would you draw the line then? It's just impossible to perfect one area.
Frederf Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 You'd start to get the hint when complaints or simple discussion about AI wingmen and ground unit AI drop below calls for more aircraft systems complexity in raw frequency. Right now DCS is a superb aircraft systems simulator with a bit of a cardboard world in which to make use of it.
104th_Crunch Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Me want A2A. No likey just A2G. Me need booth A2A and A2G in DCS. :) If I want to fight against a computer, I would punch my monitor. Give me PvP and teamwork. 1
Grimes Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Where would you draw the line then? It's just impossible to perfect one area. Frederf summed it up quite well. But basically if the AI could think tactically and strategically things would be better off. Right now it seems like the ground units have two main logic strings. 1. Is something in my way? Yes a building or a wreck = Swerve around it. or A destroyed bridge or can't swerve = stop 2. Is something bad in my target radius? If yes = shoot, if no = continue That level of basic "intelligence" is unacceptable. Sure we could do some scripting to fix it in the mission editor but it is A. It needs to be dynamic. B. A pain in the ass C. Not really a viable option D. Why require extra mission scripting to do something that should be built in to their logic to begin with? The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
Avilator Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 If I want to fight against a computer, I would punch my monitor. Would it make a Crunching sound?:D I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
Callsign.Vega Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 I understand the appeal of an a/a sim, I know I get the desire to do a little dogfighting whenever I come across topgun on tv. But for me personally I like the emphasis on the ground and pound. Realistically speaking isn’t that essentially what air combat is in the 21st century? I mean how many a/a engagements have taken place in the last 30 years post-Vietnam? Just my opinion, I know it probably isn’t shared among very many. Just because large scale A2A engagements haven't happened since Vietnam, doesn't mean they couldn't have. Could you image the scale of a non-nuclear full out air war in the 1980's between NATO and the Warsaw pact? It would have been an unbelievable battle. GPU: RTX 4090 - 3,000 MHz core / 12,000 MHz VRAM. CPU: 7950X3d - 5.2 GHz X3d, 5.8 GHz secondary / MB: ASUS Crosshair X670E Gene / RAM: G.Skill 48GB 6400 MHz SSD: Intel Optane P5800X - 800GB VR: Pimax Crystal CONTROLS: VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base / VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime Grip / VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle / TM Pendular Rudders
shu77 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Just because large scale A2A engagements haven't happened since Vietnam, doesn't mean they couldn't have. Could you image the scale of a non-nuclear full out air war in the 1980's between NATO and the Warsaw pact? It would have been an unbelievable battle. :) Would have had a pretty bad frame rate though... Hornet, Super Carrier, Warthog & (II), Mustang, Spitfire, Albatross, Sabre, Combined Arms, FC3, Nevada, Gulf, Normandy, Syria AH-6J i9 10900K @ 5.0GHz, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, Cooler Master ML120L, Gigabyte RTX3080 OC Gaming 10Gb, 64GB RAM, Reverb G2 @ 2480x2428, TM Warthog, Saitek pedals & throttle, DIY collective, TrackIR4, Cougar MFDs, vx3276-2k Combat Wombat's Airfield & Enroute Maps and Planning Tools
Speed Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Just because large scale A2A engagements haven't happened since Vietnam, doesn't mean they couldn't have. Could you image the scale of a non-nuclear full out air war in the 1980's between NATO and the Warsaw pact? It would have been an unbelievable battle. Israel had quite a few air to air engagements in 1982 I think, of course, there was alot of A2A going on in 1967 and 1973 as well. I even think at one point during the Six Day War or Yom Kippur (sp?) the IAF was shooting down MiGs secretly flown by Soviet pilots. Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc.
Callsign.Vega Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 :) Would have had a pretty bad frame rate though... It would have been the best "dynamic" campaign engine ever! :pilotfly: GPU: RTX 4090 - 3,000 MHz core / 12,000 MHz VRAM. CPU: 7950X3d - 5.2 GHz X3d, 5.8 GHz secondary / MB: ASUS Crosshair X670E Gene / RAM: G.Skill 48GB 6400 MHz SSD: Intel Optane P5800X - 800GB VR: Pimax Crystal CONTROLS: VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base / VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime Grip / VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle / TM Pendular Rudders
Moa Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 For the 1982 Israeli air battles against the Syrians the keyword you want is "Bekaa Valley" (which hosts the lovely town of Baalbek - now seat of the Hezbollah). This is where the Israeli Eagles ("Nesher" => vulture) made it's impressive and oft-quoted kill-loss ratio (until the Gulf Wars pushed that even higher). For example, here's one analysis: http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj89/win89/hurley.html
leafer Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 :) Would have had a pretty bad frame rate though... :D ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
Toxe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 As far as contracts go, I would imagine that the huge numbers of F-16Cs out there operated by so many different nations would make finding a military contract for an F-16C module pretty easy. Oh yes please. Pretty please.
Eddie Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 http://www.thewarthogpen.com/fact_sheet.html :megalol: /thread 2
element1108 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 http://www.thewarthogpen.com/fact_sheet.html :megalol: /thread +1 WIN
Prophet Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 The ground combat component of the game needs a major upgrade. Of all of the AI in the game I'd say they are the worst. As long as they do strike aircraft they have a dedicated reason to give the ground AI more intelligence. I doubt we would see an insane improvement for ground AI in a F-15C DCS game, but in a A-10 or AH-64 the odds would be much better. Thats not to say the Aircraft AI is much better, but in the overall scheme of things I'd rather see the game be perfected in one area before moving to the next. I have been saying that since I was beta testing. There is no cooperation among ground forces, and no reaction really. I know we got triggers, and that does make it better than FC was.
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