Dome projection

[memento10]

What do you guys think about this dome projection system? I believe it's 3 projectors on a white acrylic dome using nthusim software to wrap the image in the correct proportions.

 

Do you see this as a good solution for DCS?

 

http://www.frex.com/gp/

[Deadman]

if you can afford it a very nice set up for the out side visuals

[memento10]

I agree that it's pricey, I found the dome advertised at a manufacturer at around $500 instead of their $1400 or so.

 

The kicker are the projectors... a 1920x1080 projector can be found for around $1100 or so but x3 would be around $3800 with the dome.

 

I like it because you could potentially slide a race car simulator in the dome, or slide the car out and slide your cockpit in.

 

Man... this hobby can get expensive very quickly.

[Deadman]

LMAO you telling me

[MudRat02]

Can't see why they couldn't just make the middle part of the canopy the same projection material and have a second projector in there. Full canopy for your jet!

 

...an expensive one.

[MasterZelgadis]

$3800 plus the power to run 3 projectors and the computer... Very cool, but I think too expensive... at least for me.

[Deadman]

This look much more economical

open the comments box to see how he did it

[MudRat02]

That's a gem, deadman. Seems like a great setup for a cockpit.

[Miles Vorkosigan]

Check out Gene Buckles' DIY collimated display (just like multi million dollar military simulators use):

 

http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll/collimated_display.html

 

Gene has also done a DIY three projector setup building his own projectors from 15" LCD monitors!

Scroll down to see it:

 

http://geneb.simpits.org/

 

This is the same guy that has a real F15 fuselage and is building a simulator out of it:

 

http://www.f15sim.com/

 

Really impressive stuff

[Deadman]

Gene set up is great and what many of us would love to have, but when you read his post he states that most of the technology he is using is patted. He has no intentions at this time to release a how to at this time :thumbup:

[Miles Vorkosigan]

The three projector setup is not patented, and he does share how he made it.

 

The collimated setup is based on patented information (he does not hold a patent) but he is willing to share if he can get permission from the original patent holder to do so for DIY, non commercial, use.

 

But, looking at his setup could, and does, inspire further research on the project.

 

But still, it certainly is nice to look at ;)

[Dimebag1]

Oh well, someone will just have to reverse engineer it...

[hassata]

This is the same guy that has a real F15 fuselage and is building a simulator out of it:

 

http://www.f15sim.com/

 

Really impressive stuff

 

I swear this guy has been at it for at least 10 years now :thumbup:. Maybe by the time he's done and if he's lucky, ED will have released DCS F15

[Miles Vorkosigan]

I tried to build my simpit as generic as possible but I think Simpit 2.0 will lean toward the DSC-A10. Still, Gene's efforts are inspiring, especially his three projector setup. I like the half bubble posted earlier (youtube link) but I do not like the distortion at the edges. I will need to mumble to myself for a while to figure out what I do want on the next build ;)

[Deadman]

just as you say IF

And its nice to look at:thumbup:

 

The three projector setup is not patented, and he does share how he made it.

 

The collimated setup is based on patented information (he does not hold a patent) but he is willing to share if he can get permission from the original patent holder to do so for DIY, non commercial, use.

 

But, looking at his setup could, and does, inspire further research on the project.

 

But still, it certainly is nice to look at ;)

[BHawthorne]

If you're going to do dome it needs to be done right. That means a 15 or 20 foot diameter geodesic dome. This is something on my project to-do list. Problem is, I only know of x-plane that can do dome camera mode. The DCS engine needs an unwrapped 360 degree fisheye rendering mode so those with NTHUSIM or Sol7 and EyeFinity 6 cards can make a dome setup for DCS based sims. If ED would add in the camera mode, I'd guarantee NTHUSIM and Sol7 compatibility for dome builds. I have all the hardware and software required to do a dome like that, the sim needs to support it in order for it to work though.

 

If a camera mode could output something formatted simular to this perspective NTHUSIM or Sol7 can calibrate it to 3, 4 or 5 projector dome projection.

Edited February 2, 2011 by BHawthorne

[MudRat02]

Where are you going to get an acrylic dome of 15-20 diameter? I've been looking at large skylights as seen in that vid but I can't even find them that big!

[BHawthorne]

Where are you going to get an acrylic dome of 15-20 diameter? I've been looking at large skylights as seen in that vid but I can't even find them that big!

 

You don't. There are fiberglass interior dones for construction, but that gets crazy expensive.

 

Instead I suggest you cover a geodesic dome interior with Tendo projection fabric or sew together an inflatable dome out of Ripstop.

Edited February 2, 2011 by BHawthorne

[metalnwood]

If you want to researtch the geodesic dome further look for diy geodesic observatory dome. There are groups dedicated to it.

[walker450]

 

A lot of people used to have these around here in the '80s for sat TV. People would probably just give them to ya if you offer to remove it from thier yard.

[BHawthorne]

 

A lot of people used to have these around here in the '80s for sat TV. People would probably just give them to ya if you offer to remove it from thier yard.

 

The problem with one of those is the depth of the curve is too shallow. The surface needs to use the shape of a uniform sphere that has significantly more depth then use Paul Bourke's security mirror dome projection method with one or more projectors.

[Feed]

Proper curvature is dependent only on viewing distance, and some of those big, old satellite dishes are BIG - easily large enough to put a 50" TV to shame (at least in terms of FOV).

[BHawthorne]

Proper curvature is dependent only on viewing distance, and some of those big, old satellite dishes are BIG - easily large enough to put a 50" TV to shame (at least in terms of FOV).

 

Believe what you like, but I think I know what I'm talking about. Proper curvature is dependent upon lens throw and projector focus range -- not viewing distance. :music_whistling:

 

The reasoning behind dome and circular projection is to have your full FOV filled with projection. You can't do that with a satellite dish, because the depth is not deep enough and you would obscure the projection trying to be close enough to do so. In my setup I can turn my head fully to each side and still have good full screen view while flying. That is not achievable with a dish. Your still thinking in terms of viewing the game though a portal or box which LCD displays and that dish would be like. Instead the projection should be fully immersive and you see projection wherever you look. That is how to properly do circular and dome design projection.

 

You really need to understand FOV. If you are positioned behind that dish several feet because of the simpit location and your projection you never will achieve full FOV. The projection needs to be above you and beside you, not just in front of you for full FOV. That can only be achieved with a uniform spherical dome segment and multi-projection at the moment. This is something people don't ever really fully understand until they actually experience it in a functional setup.

Edited February 12, 2011 by BHawthorne

[Feed]

I misspoke - it is not dependent ONLY on viewing distance. The proper curvature, whether speaking of a satellite dish or full dome depends on your distance from it. Your viewing distance should ideally equal the radius of the curve.

 

Using a large satellite dish could provide a much wider FOV (of the outside/simulated world) than a simple flat-screen television of the same size, since the curvature of the dish WOULD wrap the view around you, at least to some extent.

 

However, you are obviously correct in saying that a full dome projection system would be very close to the ideal - a full sphere projection where I can turn my head to look in any direction and see nothing but the simulation. Still - every little step we take toward immersion is a good one.

 

I hope that from this clarification I've demonstrated that I understand FOV quite well.

[BHawthorne]

There are some advantages to something like that dish when it comes to smaller projection or if you don't have a full room to dedicate to the setup. Problem is most projectors the throw from the lens puts you between the projector and the dish That's why with such a shallow dish shape you'd have to rear project. It's what systems like the FREX and jDome do -- which closely resemble what the dish does as far as screen geometry. The thing is, something with more depth handles projection better -- for instance Paul Bourke's iDomes.

 

If I was to use an old satellite dish, I'd prep it to be used as a vacuum mold. You'd need to make quite a large vacuum table to pull down a plexi piece that size though. Not very cost effective IMHO and expensive to refine the method to a point where you could achieve consistant success with vacuum pulls for parts. Once you have the process refined and pull a good plexi part and cut off the excess flashing, you could use Goo Paint rear projection paint on the plexi and rear project on it.

 

I much prefer an overhead dome configuration over a forward dome. Something like a planetarium configuration but only 180 forward FOV with 30% of the polar area of the sphere removed to make room for floor and ceiling. Something close to what Paul Bourke calls his iSphere example but 180 instead of 360 degrees.

 

My particular setup is not dome based, but I'd like to build one next as a proof of concept. For now though circular projection is pretty immersive. I just wish I could have 16-20 foot ceiling clearance so I could do a proper half-dome myself.

 

Some of my more odd-ball ideas as of late would be to buy a 12 foot diameter beech ball from ebay and cast a composite layup mold from it to be sanded down and refined to be seamless and uniform. I could make composite layup screens from it. I have degrees in manufacturing engineering and composites engineering (among other things) so it's not too difficult to make a composites mold for something like that. Just takes time, space and patience (and a heck of alot of sanding).

Edited February 12, 2011 by BHawthorne