Flying Ka-50 with A-10C experience

[Grimes]

One of the discussion points I seem to find myself getting into lately is how will DCS:A-10C or future DCS releases effect your experience if you try to fly additional aircraft or previous DCS aircraft. A reoccurring point is that as more and more aircraft are released one must choose which aircraft they want to be proficient in. That trying to learn the systems of all aircraft would drive you crazy and it would be rather difficult. I've thought a great deal about what would motivate "player adoption" of a new product. Are they generally interested in the aircraft but still fly the old, do they just want to support ED, or would they drop even thinking about the older aircraft and fly the new one 100%. Now obviously we don't know whats next, but chances are whatever it is, there will be some major differences from whichever aircraft we do have. Even though the primary mission of the Ka-50 and the A-10C is Close Air Support, the two aircraft are polar opposites in their design and implementation.

 

Tonight I flew the Ka-50 for the first time in months. In addition I was armed with weeks of A-10C muscle memory and practice. I honestly thought I would get in the cockpit and be totally at a loss with the systems or easily crash the thing like many times before. Keep in mind I'm no Ka-50 expert, I still use the "cheating" auto start, I've never quite figured out how to datalink target info to another player, and the only ABRIS functions I know how to use are zoom and suspend waypoint. In comparison I went from having a vague idea on how the start the A-10C to doing it without any help in just a few hours. For the Ka-50, I literally only know how to deploy weapons, a few basic tasks, and to turn on 3 switches if the weather is cold. Yet, to my surprise and delight most of it came back to me rather quickly. Yes I fumbled with the switches alot. There was abit of me pressing a button on my HOTAS several times as I frantically looked around to cockpit find the switch that I kept on flipping. At points I starred at my abris as I pressed my coolie hat switch or data management hat switch wondering why the menu wasn't changing or the map wasn't zooming in or out.

 

But once I sorted my memory out I started to really enjoy flying it. Apparently the Ka-50 lacks the A-10Cs Missile Warning System, please make a note of that. So I started playing with the ABRIS while RTB'd back to base for repairs. I soon realized that my keen interest in the A-10C has led directly to me wanting to learn more about the Ka-50 so I know how a Ka-50 pilot can interact with an A-10C pilot and vice versa. Who knows, maybe I'll learn how to start the Ka-50 up properly, more likely I learn how to datalink targets to friendly Ka-50s and how to use the ABRIS to find longitude and latitude coordinates for me to radio in to a squadmate flying the A-10C.

 

Honestly, after flying A-10C a TON, I didn't think I would come back to Ka-50 with any sort of enthusiasm. Yet here I am, wanting to learn just a bit more about an aircraft I never cared that much about before.

 

Cheers.

[swift]

The Shark it's like your first girlfriend she was not the best, but there's always a special place in your heart for her. You learned amazing things together and you will always cherish those memories. Long life to the Black Shark.

[Rusty_M]

Swift, I think you described more of my memories of my third or fourth girlfriend...oh crap I'm way off topic and said too much...

[bogusheadbox]

The Shark it's like your first girlfriend

 

Used and abused and ridden harder than a rabid bull, then kicked out to pasture shortly afterwards,:smilewink: Very much like the black shark !!! (actually the shark kept me far more interested)

 

 

However, i can't see how i can do the rodeo challenge with the black shark though.

[kylania]

Anyone got a nice set of control lua files for using the TH Warthog with BlackShark?

[Bulletstop]

I am serious, I still take the shark for a spin, no mission just to fly it. It is an amazing flight :).

 

 

 

Bullet

[Speed]

I plan to be frequently flying the Black Shark until DCS Apache comes out. The helo has some huge advantages over fixed wing.

[pappavis]

I discovred that Ka-50 and A-10C has a few similairities;

* engines need the APU for startup

* datalink capailities, allow the Ka/50 to receive targets from datalink, then slave the Skval directly onto those assigned Dlink.

* Comms, though DCS: A-10C has it implemented much more advanced.

* Chaff & flare dispenser, sequences behaves similair

* ABRIS behaves in a smiliair, yet more simpler way than A-10C's ICU.

 

I've been flying ka-50 since release though havent used any advanced nav, PVI-800 features or such yet, i perhaps anyone who starts in the A-10C could easily transition to the ka-50. The vikhr is much simpler in operation than Maverics, though the mav kix ass those Vikhrs packs a punch too.

[ronht]

I cannot stress enough about how important support for companies like ED is for bringing us these incredable simulations.

 

Without our support, they will go by the wayside like so many other great simulations of the past. Remember the Janes series?

 

Let's not let that happen to DCS. There is just too much potential here to not give our strong support to.

[robmlufc]

Im back to flying the Shark aswell after a few weeks playing with the A10. I actually feel happier in the Shark, feels a lot more simple while at the same time needs a lot more learning but still manages to pack a big punch with all those vihkrs under your pylons. Sometimes A10 feels like easy mode with missile warnings and TGP. Ive started playing with the ABRIS and DL a lot more now, adding points of interest I can use a lot like I do with SPIs in the A10. First time I played BS 18 months or so ago I wasnt really interested in rotary stuff, but here I am now loving hugging the hedges setting up some sneaky shots while my A10 is parked in the HAS waiting for the next beta update.

[104th_Crunch]

The detail of the A-10C makes me want to learn more. While I learned the startup procedure of the A-10C, I never did for the Ka-50, now I want to go over it.

 

When I look at the F-15 pit in FC2 I now understand what most of the switches and displays are for even though I can't use them. If anything the fidelity of the A-10C and the great work being done just makes me want a fighter with the same detail.

 

Slightly OT. but the one major bug with us is the fact the KA-50's LWR will not work in multi player properly when hosting with FC2, and FC2 fighter's RWRs will not work properly if hosting with DCS. It is a bad bug for the Ka-50

Edited November 14, 2010 by Crunch

[FZG_Kes]

Anyone got a nice set of control lua files for using the TH Warthog with BlackShark?

 

Using Target Script software :

 

Blackshark.zip

[WindWpn]

As others pointed out, I agree that there are similarities with any/all aircraft which use a turbine jet engine. The APU is basically standard, and I never really knew what it was prior to DCS BS. An airline pilot buddy of mine noted the use of the APU in the sim and was familiar with it, and now I am as well, though I do not fly commercial jets for a living.

 

Falcon experience helped with graduation to the high fidelity of the A-10C along with experience from the BS. All in all, the start up learning curve was quick for me in the A-10C, and though I do not have everything mastered, I have solid understanding of most all systems and function with only a relatively small amount of time in the sim.

 

My experience "eyes closed" cold startup of the BS also helped with the switchology understanding for similarly starting the A-10c. As the Beta is refined/improved and the sim is optimized for FPS, it will be quite a joy to fly/fight! Looking forward to the next Beta release and another step closer to production release!

[Bucic]

Thanks Grimes for sharing your thoughts! The whole topic - interesting read so far :thumbup:

[Yuya6104]

Good morning..

me like A-10 but american jets planes are too easy and there avonics it only took me few hours learn A-10C but i find the Ка-50 a much more challangeing besides my fav helicopter gunship an the Ми-24 and Ми-28 , Су-25 , Су-24 find them most challangeing an flying them never same always something diffeant even in combat exerince never stops an its heart droping once in combat evadeing missles an helicopters goes on why like it..

 

but if know behaver of Ка-50 find it it a very easy plane to fly even with autopilot switched off like having your traning wheels taken off you first bike..so once switched off autopilot get ready for ride of your life huging ground at speeds of 350Km/h at 25p to 30p radar altuited ativing manuvers like loop barrl roll name it it can do..

 

Ка-50 is one the most complex machines around even new Ка-52 thats in its final tests before entering service for the RAF. so Ка-50 again probbly the worlds top tank hunter killer an very manuverable in moutains jungles pretty much anything day an night all weather..

 

this why i like Ка-50 over any chopper be honest better then any the americans apaches etc but never saw the Ка-50 up against the appache unless the cold war starts over again but never know would we..

 

well thats it

 

sorry if my english is bad probbly made alot mistakes in my english spelling.. ^^

[Boberro]

Ка-50 is one the most complex machines around even new Ка-52 thats in its final tests before entering service for the RAF. so Ка-50 again probbly the worlds top tank hunter killer an very manuverable in moutains jungles pretty much anything day an night all weather..

 

Are you joking?

[Mirtma]

I soon realized that my keen interest in the A-10C has led directly to me wanting to learn more about the Ka-50 so I know how a Ka-50 pilot can interact with an A-10C pilot and vice versa. Who knows, maybe I'll learn how to start the Ka-50 up properly, more likely I learn how to datalink targets to friendly Ka-50s and how to use the ABRIS to find longitude and latitude coordinates for me to radio in to a squadmate flying the A-10C.

 

I know exactly what you mean. :thumbup:

[Yuya6104]

Are you joking?

 

I do not joke. ><

[Boberro]

I do not joke. ><

 

I know you joked about the World's top killer, all weather and night & day Ka-50. You made me day :D

Edited November 14, 2010 by Boberro

[Smokin Hole]

This thread touches on what every pilot quickly learns: the human brain is very adept at leaning and remembering complex repetative tasks so long as there is a "flow" in how those tasks are accomplished. I can still remember the flows I used in the DC-10 in 1994, and the A320 which I stopped flying in 1998. The only way for flows to be safe and effective is for them to be supported by a full understanding of what each task actually does. Both DCS products teach us flows for accomplishing basic flight and combat tasks. What players don't know and have little capability to learn are the underlying reasons for each step and the inter-relationship between different systems and sub-systems. (Although we're getting farther along as WH progresses a few steps past BS). So long as we keep our knowledge level at the minimal level it takes to succeed in both sims, we can probably learn and stay "proficient" at a dozen platforms at a DCS level of fidelity. But try to learn at the capacity of a real A-10C or Ka50 pilot and you would max out at two, IMO.

 

Having said all that, all the sims share detailed knowledge in what I imagine must be one of the most important things for the combat pilot to remember (and hardest to keep straight): the capabilities and limitations of friendly and enemy weapons, sensors, and countermeasures. That knowledge is carried with you to each product.

[G3]

Slightly OT. but the one major bug with us is the fact the KA-50's LWR will not work in multi player properly when hosting with FC2, and FC2 fighter's RWRs will not work properly if hosting with DCS. It is a bad bug for the Ka-50

 

sorry to continue off topic but i was not aware of this issue,

please elaborate or point me to the discussion, cheers.

[Panzertard]

Yes, there are disrepancies regarding RWR for fighters and LWR for Helo - depending on attacker (SAM/GroundUnits) - and which version you use to host from. DCS or FC2.

I have no intel on which units it is - nor in which version.

 

The issue is known by the community - and being checked properly by testers & ED for the next DCS compilations.

Unfortunatly - we have no knwledge if there will be any patches for FC2.

[104th_Crunch]

sorry to continue off topic but i was not aware of this issue,

please elaborate or point me to the discussion, cheers.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=54839&highlight=LWR+Bug

[G3]

thankyou Sir :thumbup: