rud Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 I was thinking today, while trying to juggle the F1-F12 keys I have mapped to the toggles on my X-52 (plus pinky for F7-F12), that the comm system we have basically dates back to the days of non-clickable cockpits and planes that were flown without a mouse nearby. Since we now have 3D clickable cockpits the mouse never leaves the joystick's side, at least for me. I think it would be great if the menus brought up by hitting the mic switches could be clicked with the mouse as well as the F1-F12 keys. I know this would make it easier for me to get the right message sent as quickly as possible. Any one else think it's a good or bad idea? 1
EvilBivol-1 Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) There are a number of different radio menu implementations that have been considered over the years, including a mouse clickable version like you describe that I had also suggested at some point. However, the need to take your hand off the stick is a considerable disadvantage. Another approach that I would submit for consideration is the use of the keyboard arrows on the keyboard or the POV hat on the stick to cycle through the menu items. In this system, once the radio menu is open, you would press the down arrow/POV hat down until the desired option is chosen, then hit left or right arrow/POV left/right to open a submenu and then hit the mic switch again to transmit the selected message and simultaneously close the radio menu. When the radio menu is not in use, the hat would function as whatever it's normally mapped to. At least at first thought, this seems to me like a convenient and quick way to navigate the radio menu. Opinions? Edited March 19, 2011 by EvilBivol-1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
PeterP Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 a convenient and quick way to navigate the radio menu You hit the nail directly on the head! I want to see this implemented - much more intuitive.
WarriorX Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Menu scrolling via keybind/keypress is a start. I would be glad to see something. The gold solution, in my opinion, lies with the voice recognition capability built into Win7, that a in game, speech controlled menu, could be developed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Is that you John Wayne?.......Is this me?" Full Metal Jacket //My Mission Data Card//My Cold Start Checklist //Clearing a Hung Store Tutorial //CDU Offset//Asterisk Error Correction Procedure//JTAC UTM Coordinate Entry Tutorial//JTAC 9 Line Lat Long Coordinate Entry Tutorial
Mule Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Good question. I have my mouse right next to my stick these days it would be much better to implement that. Fighter Pilot Podcast.
Thorvald Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 At this point I'd say allow the menu to be scrolled and selected, then make it a bindable item. That ways users can bind it to whatever the want (POV Hat with shift modifier etc). Personally I'd bind it to the ptt switch on the Warthog throttle and use the press in button to select the item. That way I'm using the same control to do all the radio items. Tim System: Win10 Pro 64bit, Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7 MB, Intel i& 8700K, Corsair H150i Pro Cooler, Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 16GB, PNY NVidia 1070 GTX, Corsair MP500 & MP600 SSD, Soundblaster Audigy Rx, CM Mastercase H500P, Oculus Rift S, TM Warthogs.
RichardG Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 The biggest problem with using function keys, is you limit the comms selections to only 10 items (12 if you count back and exit (F11 and F12))
Dimebag1 Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Just get VAC (voice activated command), it does a pretty good job at recognizing voice commands and you can set it up to run through several different menu items at once. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
aaron886 Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 A better system would be huge... preferably a 4-way button system. This sim has very nice radio environment, and never-before-seen realistic JTAC integrated, but I still feel like a monkey in an experiment when i have to paw at F-keys to make a quick response to JTAC, etc.
latearrival Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Just get VAC (voice activated command), it does a pretty good job at recognizing voice commands and you can set it up to run through several different menu items at once. +1 I just bought VAC too (http://www.dwvac.com/) and I think it's perfect for maintaining my sense of immersion. I always found it a bit jarring to use the F keys to 'talk'. Windows 10 | i5 2500k @ 4.4Ghz | MSI GTX 970 4GB | 8GB RAM | ASRock P67 Extreme4 | Seasonic X-Series 650W PSU | Oculus Rift DK2 | CH Fighterstick, Throttle & Pedals
uri_ba Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Mouse wheel scroll up and down. middle mouse button to select. I think all modern HOTAS systems have the mouse scrolll stuck on somewhere, isn't it? and it's much less "complicated" then actually move the mouse to the comm area. Creator of Hound ELINT script My pit building blog Few DIY projects on Github: DIY Cougar throttle Standalone USB controller | DIY FCC3 Standalone USB Controller
Thermal Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 There are a number of different radio menu implementations that have been considered over the years ... When the radio menu is not in use, the hat would function as whatever it's normally mapped to. At least at first thought, this seems to me like a convenient and quick way to navigate the radio menu. Opinions? Thanks for asking :) Nothing jumps out as an obvious solution :( I'd add to your suggestion though in that if there could be a new "mode" of radio communication, based on a POV hat. i.e. Bring up the menu, then left, right, up, down drills down into the next menu. On first inspection, if the Trim function could be co-opted to this (so if comms menu is open, then trim input = comm options) we'd have a start. Having 12 options as a base makes HOTAS selection harder. Some FPS shooters have had similar menu systems (SWAT4?). Another idea would be to have the comms menu pop up in a menu bar at the bottom of the screen (using the same code as the bar at the bottom of some of the external views). I have a TIR4 and moving my head from the top right of the primary view to the keyboard to identify a function key, and back, then steady view, read new options, move head to keyboard, identify function key etc etc is a bit disorientating. Have the menu at the bottom would lessen that. And another idea would be for us TIR users is to freeze the current view when the comms menu is open, and use the TIR position to select the menu options with a confirmation key. The other option would be to open up the comms system to us, having editable xml or whatever for the menu structure/tree, and the ability to bind the corresponding menu options to our own keypresses. (Maybe thats just putting together some technical info on how we can do that ourselves). Also have a concept of an up/down/left/right/select/back commands to navigate the menu, and also hard selection options (like the current system) and let us come up with/evolve a good system (which might also make VAC etc easier to implement for users too). Finally, being able to export the comms menu in realtime via export.lua system, with the above modifications would speed development. There has been some good work like Helios, HawgTouch and iPad menus already. p.s. export the CDU display for us too! :)
aaron886 Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Going to give VAC a try I think, I've never given it much credence. Mouse wheel scroll up and down. middle mouse button to select. I think all modern HOTAS systems have the mouse scrolll stuck on somewhere, isn't it? Not really. I don't.
rud Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 well, this is awesome! Thanks be to forum member reemit0772 who told me how to enable mouse clicking in the communications menu! Guess it was here all along: In the folder: FUI/resources/radio. Edit 'menu.res' and change 'acceptmouse{0}' to 'acceptmouse{1}' Works a treat for me. Just unbound the function keys from my X-52. 3
stormrider Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 There are a number of different radio menu implementations that have been considered over the years, including a mouse clickable version like you describe that I had also suggested at some point. However, the need to take your hand off the stick is a considerable disadvantage. Another approach that I would submit for consideration is the use of the keyboard arrows on the keyboard or the POV hat on the stick to cycle through the menu items. In this system, once the radio menu is open, you would press the down arrow/POV hat down until the desired option is chosen, then hit left or right arrow/POV left/right to open a submenu and then hit the mic switch again to transmit the selected message and simultaneously close the radio menu. When the radio menu is not in use, the hat would function as whatever it's normally mapped to. At least at first thought, this seems to me like a convenient and quick way to navigate the radio menu. Opinions? I can´t think of an easier way! Banned by cunts.
RIZLAHQ Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 We Poor people that don't have deep pockets to buy the latest tech spend alot of time eyes down looking at are keyboards. Think a well made VAC profile with some extra communications options would be a great idea. Gotta have to watch this post, Any idea how
Blaze Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 well, this is awesome! Thanks be to forum member reemit0772 who told me how to enable mouse clicking in the communications menu! Guess it was here all along: In the folder: FUI/resources/radio. Edit 'menu.res' and change 'acceptmouse{0}' to 'acceptmouse{1}' Works a treat for me. Just unbound the function keys from my X-52. Works great. Although you still have to reach for the mouse. ;) i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. "
Blaze Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Yea, at least with the clickable option you can select the F13 and F14 options... i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. "
bradleyjs Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 At this point I'd say allow the menu to be scrolled and selected, then make it a bindable item. That ways users can bind it to whatever the want (POV Hat with shift modifier etc). Personally I'd bind it to the ptt switch on the Warthog throttle and use the press in button to select the item. That way I'm using the same control to do all the radio items. Tim I like this solution too (the "ptt switch on the Warthog throttle") and/or the Mouse option (for those who don't have a HOTAS Warthog). My .04 cents. Alienware Area 51 R5 - Intel i9 7980XE (4.7 GHz), 32GB Dual Channel HyperX DDR4 XMP, Dual NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Graphics 11GB GDDR5X SLI, 4.5 TB combo of SSDs/HDDs, Alienware 1500 Watt Multi-GPU Power Supply, Alienware 25” 240Hz Gaming Monitor, Alienware Pro Gaming Keyboard, TM HOTAS, TM Cougar F-16C MFDs, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, TrackIR5, Win10 Pro x64
hawka Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 radio I have the F-key's set to hats + pinky eg., 3,4,5,6, in clockwise fashion when mic is open just click the appropriate switch,the hands never leave the stick easy and quick. I like the Idea of the scroll wheel though,at least it would make use of it. Win 10,MB GA-X79S-UP5 cpu i7-3820 water cooled,GPU 1080ti ,psu corsair HX1200i,,ram Dominator 32GB trackir 5,VKB Gunfighter stick , throttle ,saitek x65f & CH pedals
RIZLAHQ Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 +1 I just bought VAC too (http://www.dwvac.com/) and I think it's perfect for maintaining my sense of immersion. I always found it a bit jarring to use the F keys to 'talk'. You paid for it, I thought it was free
latearrival Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 You paid for it, I thought it was free You can evaluate it for free for 30 days, then it costs US$18. Given how much we all spend on HOTAS, TrackIR, Touchscreens, PC upgrades etc, it seems like a small price to pay for a better Radio experience. Windows 10 | i5 2500k @ 4.4Ghz | MSI GTX 970 4GB | 8GB RAM | ASRock P67 Extreme4 | Seasonic X-Series 650W PSU | Oculus Rift DK2 | CH Fighterstick, Throttle & Pedals
FZG_Immel Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Is there a VAC profile for A-10C out there ? I'd really like to try it [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5
RIZLAHQ Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 well, this is awesome! Thanks be to forum member reemit0772 who told me how to enable mouse clicking in the communications menu! Guess it was here all along: In the folder: FUI/resources/radio. Edit 'menu.res' and change 'acceptmouse{0}' to 'acceptmouse{1}' Works a treat for me. Just unbound the function keys from my X-52. Res. which program do you use to open this file type, I've tried wordPad but i can't save it in the default location, And have no option to save the file back to res, only option i get is txt. Help:helpsmilie:
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