Air Refueling - Any tips?

[Supersheep]

Ha - I just heard the tanker call "Transfer complete" for the first time :)

I took about 70% in four connects.

No track because I was trying overhead breaks before landing. That did not make for some nice flying:pilotfly:

 

Now I need to get the throttle right while on the boom. I constantly fail to judge how much I need to add/reduce to move "that two feet" fore or aft.

Pushing and almost immediately returning the throttle as mentioned by someone above helped a great deal already. I'll be searching the post to throw a rep at it when I am there.

 

 

:):):)

Super-

[Jona33]

Nah, on Monday I flew a mission I built with some other guys in MP and had to shoot down a C-17 and an F-15 I put in there because they basically were about to do the same.

Mission was built and run in 1.1.1.1.

I have to remenber to change that mission by the way...

 

 

Supersheep

 

Yes, next time shall we put a spare tanker in in case of another "mishap" when I'm not concentrating. (Saved me from embarrassing myself though with a failure)

[FreeFall]

Ha - I just heard the tanker call "Transfer complete" for the first time :)

 

Congrats! That sounds very good every time! Especially when without having reconnects. :D

[KLR Rico]

I finally achieved full tanks the other day! Very satisfying after all the failures... One of the things that helped me was a bit of curve on the throttle and maybe 20-30% speed brakes, it really helped with the task of keeping the boom in the green.

[Supersheep]

I stopped utilizing speedbrakes. They amplify any trouble you have keeping your speed correct, I think. Besides, i read somewhere that no speedbrakes are used IRL, so there must be a reason for this.

And refueling w/o disconnects, nice for sure, but that is a long way left to go for me.

 

But its great that I finally get the knack of it.

And btw, I reduced my curves a bit, that helped me too. I do not remember the values, but I think they were excessive.

 

 

Super-

[Tailgate]

Here's a track of my attempt at a single connection refuel. I took on 8k, then the Tanker told me to Disconnect, so I disconnected. This was before I realized that the Tanker should respond "Transfer Complete". I was in parameters and taking fuel, so I don't understand why the Disconnect response? It looked topped off to me, maybe a few hundred lbs shy.

Flt-Refuel.trk

Edited January 29, 2012 by Tailgate
4k x 2 (each tank)

[Topgun505]

I have the same problems as others do ... where I can get into position but I get disconnected only a few seconds after connecting even tho I am trimmed as close as possible and I appear to be spot on with the throttle and don't hardly touch the controls.

 

I will check my curve settings later tonight.

 

However, I do notice one thing that I don't think has been covered as of yet. The tanker is going 180 knots. As a result it has probably a good 10-15 degrees pitch up just to hold altitude. I'm wondering if this could possibly be throwing things off? Should I have the tanker going at a faster connect speed in order to have a more level profile? 200? Or is this hookup speed normal? It seems odd to be hooking up with the tanker pitched that far back ... which then rotates its underbelly away from the A-10 and thus reduces the visibility of the position lights.

[GGTharos]

220 IAS is the refueling speed for the hog.

[Topgun505]

Ok. My X axis is 15, Y axis is 22, Throttle axis is 0 for the curve. But I don't think my throttle is the problem ... I match speed and then bump it for like a second or so and back it back down in order to creep into position.

 

From looking at videos I think my problems are a) the tanker was going too slow in the mission, and b) I was probably too high relative to the tanker so was flirting with the booms upper gimbal limit. Will try more testing tomorrow night.

[Tailgate]

This works for me.

 

 

 

I try to keep the boom wing position glued to the top of the canopy and slight throttle movements to keep the barber pole in the green.

[phoenix599]

Great info about this extremely challenging task. I started trying to refuel yesterday and it it without a doubt the most difficult task I have yet encountered in this simulation. The screen shots (like the one above) help greatly. I found that initially I was approaching too high with regard to boom position. Now I have to work on trim...I feel pretty sure that is what is creating issues for me...that and minute throttle manipulation.

 

Eventually I will master this...but it is sure driving me crazy right now!

[Tailgate]

There's a slight delay of throttle vs speed, so my challenge was trying to predict how far to back off or push the throttle. initially I was doing the yo yo with the pole even with slight throttle movements, but eventually I was able to predict the movements.

 

Remember, when approaching the tanker you are faster, and most likely out of trim for the tanker speed, so re-trimming at pre-contact position is essential. If everything is perfect, trim, speed, flying the picture, you shouldn't need to adjust anything, but of course, it's never perfect. Something to shoot for, though. :)

Edited February 21, 2012 by Tailgate

[Dejjvid]

Just nudge the throttles up, then back again. You'll soon get the hang of it.

 

And if you don't trim 97% of the time flying the hawg, you're not in control.

[Fish]

QUOTE=Supersheep;1362860]I stopped utilizing speedbrakes. They amplify any trouble you have keeping your speed correct......,Super-

 

When to use SB in refuelling

1. Good on a fast approach to prevent overshoot,

2. Apply a little constant speed brake, if you want to move the 'sweet' throttle position a little forward (i use it to get away from the idle detent with slow tanker speeds, and clean jet.)

 

 

Also here's an image which might be of help. Can't image it would be much different for an A10c

 

Edited February 21, 2012 by Fish

[Topgun505]

So I did a quick test tonight. I modified the tanker to fly at around 220 for all legs of its flight instead of the sluggish 180 it had been going. However when I got in the sim and approached the tanker it was STILL going 180. Will have to figure out what's happening with that. :joystick: But time was limited so I said the heck with it ... may as well just try again.

 

I used Tailgate's picture above as a reference, ignored the HUD and ...... hooked up with no problem. I didn't stay connected all in one shot, mind you, I think I disconnected around 3 times but I connected right back up again within about 10-15 seconds each time and continued again to take on fuel. I went from 40% to around 85% and I'm confident that I could have hooked back up again to finish it off if I had wanted. I did have a few instances of PIO but it wasn't enough to disconnect. Most of the disconnects were just a little too slow in the anticipation of the throttle changes needed after connection.

 

I had to remember to breathe, and I still had a bit of an over-firm grip on the stick ... but not the grip of death like before.

 

All in all not too bad for only practicing a total of maybe 3 hr flight time behind the tanker over a few days.

 

Thanks to everyone in this thread for their advice (I read all 19 pages of it).

 

Of course .. then there is always the challenge of doing it at night ... but I think I will stick to practicing it during the daytime for now. :)

[FreeFall]

Also here's an image which might be of help. Can't image it would be much different for an A10c

 

I've seen a similar picture with exactly the same angles and figures. Only instead of a fast mover, there was a pic of A-10. So I think there is no difference

 

 

So I did a quick test tonight. I modified the tanker to fly at around 220 for all legs of its flight instead of the sluggish 180 it had been going.

 

You might find these threads useful:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1367094#post1367094

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1350869#post1350869

[Tailgate]

Nice job Topgun505. When you ignore the HUD and fly the picture, it makes all the difference.

[Topgun505]

Found the problem with the tanker. The airspeed was set for the waypoints but I hadn't changed it for the Orbit task in the Advanced section of the waypoint. Problem solved.

 

A 2nd evening of refueling (at the correct speed this time) amounted to the same thing. Was able to fill the plane from 40% to full with only a couple of brief disconnects.

 

Problem solved! :)

[Sarge55]

Good to hear you solved it Topgun505.

 

Would you consider sharing your mission? I'd like to see the difference.

[spikenet]

Finally got round to trying AAR. Was quite a challenge learning the right "zone" to connect in but once I got used to placing the tanker in the top part of the canopy and ignoring the HUD and tube it wasnt that bad. Awesome to get the "Transfer complete" audio for the first time. Thanks for the tips!

[Username455]

I am at a point now where if I need to refuel, I can. However, I recently tried a mission with a lot of wind and it went something like this:

connect, you're taking fuel, disconnect. Everytime I connected thats what happened. I let my wingman have a go and he filled up on his first connect.

 

So what do I need to do to refuel in wind? I was staying pretty steady behind the tanker and matched his speed well enough I think.

[sobek]

I am at a point now where if I need to refuel, I can. However, I recently tried a mission with a lot of wind and it went something like this:

connect, you're taking fuel, disconnect.

 

Did you take fuel after the disconnect message from the tanker? I'm not sure if this is still present, but the tanker used to give disconnect calls under certain circumstances even though you were still connected and taking fuel.

[Frostiken]

I've been having problems too. I connected up okay, took a bit of fuel, and then disconnected. When I reconnect (after resetting, of course), he'll say "You're taking fuel... disconnect." and it'll kick me off.

 

Sometimes he yells 'Break away!' for no reason as well.

 

I'll abort the refuel entirely and try again and no change.

[Tailgate]

Were your tanks full when the disconnect was called? I've noticed that sometimes you'll get a "Disconnect" call rather than "Transfer Complete" in SP. Not sure of the circumstances behind that though. In MP, I think there's a fuel limitation so I've only gotten partial fills and told to disconnect. After resetting it doesn't allow any more fuel to be taken.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tailgate

[Username455]

It may have been a bug, I just replayed the mission and after staying connected and getting ~75% fuel it said transfer complete. But previously when he was constantly saying disconnect I wouldn't receive fuel and I was far from full. Don't know why it worked for the other guy flying though